My PT709. Help me decide!

This is a discussion on My PT709. Help me decide! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So I got my PT709 back from Taurus today. I sent it in for 2 issues. Well, 1 issue I was sure on and 1 ...

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Thread: My PT709. Help me decide!

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    My PT709. Help me decide!

    So I got my PT709 back from Taurus today. I sent it in for 2 issues. Well, 1 issue I was sure on and 1 issue I wasn't so sure on. The issue that I WAS sure on was FTE's. I was getting a ton of them. At least 1 per mag. The second issue was with light strikes. The reason I say that I wasn't a 100 percent sure on this issue is because all of the FTF's occurred with crappy "Brown Bear" ammo which from what I understand is surplus Russian ammo so I wouldn't be surprised if it had some hard primers.

    The repair sheet I got back from Taurus stated they did 2 things to the pistol.

    Problem Found - Firearm Dirty Resolution - Adjusted
    Problem Found - Extractor Resolution - Replaced.

    Ok, All well and good. Time for some range time. I walked into my local shop to see what they had in the way of ammo. I bought 2 boxes of Fiochi 115g at 12.95 a box (Not to bad) 2 Boxes of WWB 115g at 11.95 (Again, not to bad) and a 2 boxes of Federal hollow points that I have never seen before that I would describe as FWB 147g (Federal White Box). I picked these up to try out as a carry load. The guy at the shop said that its the Federal LEO round pack so I kind of wonder if they are the HST. I also had a box of speer gold dots 147g that I have had laying around for since before I could remember that had been loaded and un-loaded from every 9mm I have ever owned.

    Off to the range! Figured I would burn the SGD's first. Load em up and I KID YOU NOT! first round FTE. I honestly laughed out loud to myself and had already started planning every angry thing I was going to say to Taurus Customer Service when I called. Res of the mag went of fine. 2nd mag. Three rounds in, FTE. Rest of the SGD's went off fine. We are up to 2 FTE's in 2 rounds. However I do admit that the ammo was fairly old and not in the best shape.

    On to the fiochi. First 3 mags went through fine. 3rd shot out of the 4 mag was a FTF. I pulled the round out and compared the primer to one of my spent casings. I will attach a picture. I can say that the primer on the round that didn't fire was definitely not struck as hard or deep as my others. I have no idea if that is due to a light strike malfunction from the gun or a hard primer from the factory. I also got one FTF out of the second box of Fiochi in the same exact manner.

    On to the WWB. No failures at all. Everything fed, fired and extracted fine. The same went for the Federal 147g hollow points.

    So out final total was 270 total rounds fired. 2 FTE's out of 20 slightly abused SGD ammo. 2 either light strikes or hard primers out of 100 rounds of Fiochi. No failures out of 100 rounds of WWB. No failures out of 50 rounds of Federal 147g hollow points.

    So, I have NO idea what to think. I look to the community for guidance. Help!!!!
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I vote ammo issue.


    Some guns are perfectly reliable but are picky as heck when it comes to ammo. Feed her what she likes
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    Sounds like ammo issues to me, rather than a firearm issue (other than being picky, which isn't too uncommon).

    I thought Fiochi was a decent brand, but I've never used it. Did you try to fire the misfires a second time? The one time I had one, it went off on the second try.
    Used Brown Bear once at an indoor range (Had to use their ammo, all they had in 9mm Mak) and had no problems with it.

    Do you like the pistol? If so, I'd say run a few more boxes of good ammo (WinWest, etc.) through it. If all goes well, I'd say the pistol was okay.

    I'm not a big believer in "break-in periods" (what other product do you buy that has to be broken-in?) as I feel quality of the gun should be such as it's ready to go out of the box. Having said that (and knowing the flak will come for saying so), running a couple of hundred rounds thru a gun does boost one's confidence in it.

    If more problems pop up with commonlyused ammo, then you might need to contat Taurus again.

    Now go out and shoot it again!
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I'm not a big believer in "break-in periods" (what other product do you buy that has to be broken-in?)
    no flak. Just a list


    Crate engines
    rebuilt engines and transmissions
    Brushed electric motors
    non sealed ball bearings
    small hobby motors
    NiMh battery packs for many pieces of hospital equipment
    motorcycle helmets (new helmet smell scratched and squished face)
    recliners
    Jeans
    bench rest rifle barrels

    eh I'm sure I can think of more.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array ZX9RCAM's Avatar
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    I don't know if I will send mine in or just throw it in the back of the safe.
    I have the same FTE issue you must have been having before you sent yours in.

    Every 3 -4 rds. I would get a stove pipe out of about 500rds. of WWB & Federal.

    Big disappointment because the gun shoots really well.....
    If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.

    -Will Rogers

    Im a big fan of the .22LR for bear defense.
    Just shoot the guy next to you in the knee and run like heck.

  7. #6
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    Get rid of it while you still can, then right "Sixto told me so" 100 times on the blackboard.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Get rid of it while you still can, then right "Sixto told me so" 100 times on the blackboard.
    I was waiting on the obligatory Sixto "It's a Taurus" post.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Get rid of it while you still can, then right "Sixto told me so" 100 times on the blackboard.
    Yeah that pic of the 709 next to the deck of cards is tempting...but then I read threads like this. Also, I had the opportunity to handle, not shoot, a Taurus PT92 and a Beretta 92FS side by side, and I don't know what it was exactly, but something didn't feel as good about the Taurus...although the price tag was way better...
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I was waiting on the obligatory Sixto "It's a Taurus" post.
    But am I wrong? I know I ride Taurus pretty hard, but I hate to see people throwing good money after bad only to have experiences like you are talking about in this thread.
    I'm just saying salvage what you can and move on. The gun isn't going to get any better.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array pogo2's Avatar
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    I've never owned a Taurus, but...

    Although I haven't owned or shot a Taurus, I must have read 500 postings like yours on various gun sites over the last 10 years. I learn from the experiences of others, when they are kind enough to share them. Although I am not Sixto, I agree with him on the Taurus brand.

    Why not buy one of the well known brands that have a good reputation? For the sake of saving $100 or $200, it doesn't seem logical to run the risk of a gun that doesn't work and all the headaches this involves.

    I have maybe one gun failure every couple of years, and I shoot every couple of weeks. Most of my handguns are Sig, Glock, H&K, S&W, Colt, Ruger and Kahr. Most of my guns have never failed to function, as long as I have owned them.
    Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the Peoples' Liberty's Teeth." - George Washington

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Valid point. I will try to explain why I went with the Taurus.

    Let me start off by saying it had nothing to do with the cost. Less expensive is good but it wasn't why I purchased this gun. I purchased this gun because it was the only one that had the specs I wanted.

    Single stack under 1 inch thin
    External sasftey
    Adjustable rear sight
    I can hit the mag release with my right hand without changing postion
    Under 22 OZ fully loaded
    Single Action Trigger

    If Glock made a single stack I would buy it. Even though I prefer a manual safety, glocks trigger is a good enough that I could get over not having single action.

    Bottom line is that Taurus was the only company that made the gun I wanted with the specs I wanted.

    Edit - Same goes for my PT145. No one else makes a .45 that small with those specs.


    Quote Originally Posted by pogo2 View Post
    Although I haven't owned or shot a Taurus, I must have read 500 postings like yours on various gun sites over the last 10 years. I learn from the experiences of others, when they are kind enough to share them. Although I am not Sixto, I agree with him on the Taurus brand.

    Why not buy one of the well known brands that have a good reputation? For the sake of saving $100 or $200, it doesn't seem logical to run the risk of a gun that doesn't work and all the headaches this involves.

    I have maybe one gun failure every couple of years, and I shoot every couple of weeks. Most of my handguns are Sig, Glock, H&K, S&W, Colt, Ruger and Kahr. Most of my guns have never failed to function, as long as I have owned them.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    I've never discounted the fact that Taurus does come up with some good ideas, and they do build pistols with features the consumer wants, they just have a lot of trouble executing their plans and with quality control. And, I still contend that their price points are not as cheap as they first appear. Taurus charges a arm and leg for magazines or other accessories.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Valid point. I will try to explain why I went with the Taurus.

    Let me start off by saying it had nothing to do with the cost. Less expensive is good but it wasn't why I purchased this gun. I purchased this gun because it was the only one that had the specs I wanted.

    Single stack under 1 inch thin
    External sasftey
    Adjustable rear sight
    I can hit the mag release with my right hand without changing postion
    Under 22 OZ fully loaded
    Single Action Trigger


    If Glock made a single stack I would buy it. Even though I prefer a manual safety, glocks trigger is a good enough that I could get over not having single action.

    Bottom line is that Taurus was the only company that made the gun I wanted with the specs I wanted.

    Edit - Same goes for my PT145. No one else makes a .45 that small with those specs.

    Here are some links that might interest you. I believe this meets most of your criteria.
    KAHR PM9093 / Specifications
    KAHR PM9193 / Detail images
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    But am I wrong? I know I ride Taurus pretty hard, but I hate to see people throwing good money after bad only to have experiences like you are talking about in this thread.
    I'm just saying salvage what you can and move on. The gun isn't going to get any better.
    A smart man learns from his own mistakes, while a wise man learns from the mistakes of others.

    Funny though - when I've expressed similar thoughts about Kahr, based on my own personal experience with them, I've gotten heat for "bashing" them. Ah well...

    Hope it works out for ya! I'm saving my pennies and biding my time for a Boberg XR9S...maybe...depending on what the feedback is...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
    CT Lasers

  16. #15
    Member Array Finlander's Avatar
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    Funny....I went in the local gun shop to purchase a PT-145. A fellow shooter was at the counter returning his Taurus for repair. Said after about 100 rounds a piece of plastic just flew out of the side. Gunsmith said he's had quite of few Taurus come back lately. Although I'm not crazy about their looks...I ended up with a Glock 23 for a few bucks more and piece of mind.... I still think about that 145 occasionally.

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