Kayak/Canoe carry

Kayak/Canoe carry

This is a discussion on Kayak/Canoe carry within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am planning on kayaking in Mammoth Cave NP this weekend. I do not have my CCW (taking the class next weekend...finally). I would like ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array TWeatherford's Avatar
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    Kayak/Canoe carry

    I am planning on kayaking in Mammoth Cave NP this weekend. I do not have my CCW (taking the class next weekend...finally). I would like to OC my 3" Charter Arms .357. I was actually there last weekend and asked a few rangers and to my surprise, they said I was legal to carry in the park, just not in any buildings.

    My question here is not really to debate OC vs waiting till I can CCW. My main question is what happens if the boat tips? Will complete immersion be destructive to the gun? Or will a good complete cleaning as soon as I get home be ok? I don't know a whole lot about anything beyond basic cleaning and shooting so bear with me. I don't really like the idea of putting it in a plastic bag, then in the holster.

    Any suggestions welcome.
    Be Prepared


  2. #2
    Member Array NoNameMan's Avatar
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    I would think that in most cases a complete cleaning would be sufficient to keep your gun from corroding. I would do a complete cleaning beforehand as well to get it nice and oily inside too. Make sure you clean every single part. If you don't know how to disassemble the gun fully, then maybe it's not a very good idea to begin with.

    You have to assume that your gun will get wet because there is a significant possibility of that while kayaking. If you are not comfortable with the idea of your gun getting wet, then your options are limited.
    -Protect it from the water using a plastic bag or other means
    -Don't carry it

    Maybe covering it with a bag or putting it in a watertight container is no longer considered open carry?

    I might get flamed for saying this, but in your situation I think that I would opt to carry a big knife vs. a gun. Unless there is camping and hiking involved of course.
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array kylebce's Avatar
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    I carry concealed and I also kayak. The merits of always having your sidearm handy could be argued all day long. I don't want to give my Glock a bath, so I keep mine in a dry bag (along with camera and keys). It is my experience that you're not going to have trouble unless it is from another person- in a boat or less likely person approaching from the shore.

    I think there's time enough to open the bag & draw if needed.

    We strike a balance between comfort/ convenience and preparedness/ protection. I am alert, and feel there is less risk on the water than in town.
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  4. #4
    Member Array i10casual's Avatar
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    I just like the title. Sounds awesome.

  5. #5
    Member Array bgglock's Avatar
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    I second what NoNameMan said...just give it a good thorough clean/lube before and after your trip.

    I have canoed down the Green River in Mammoth Cave NP several times, but not recently. We put in at Mammoth Cave Ferry and float down to Houchin Ferry most of the time. It is a 12 mile trip. About 3 miles in you will come to a large island just before Turnhole Bend that makes a good overnight campsite. On the left side of the island (going downstream) there is a cave that has a sandy beach if the river level is not too high.

    Another good day trip is putting in below the dam on the Nolin and floating down to where it joins the Green. Then you can paddle upstream for about a mile to Houchin Ferry. This isn't too bad if the water level is low like it is in summer, but one time we did this leg when the current was pretty strong. Even hugging the bank the paddling wore me out. I am too old to do that kind of stuff anymore. I hope you have an enjoyable weekend! Protect yourself from hypothermia, that water temperature will still be plenty chilly!
    Current handguns: Glock models 19, 22C, 23, 27, 29, & 36; Kimber Pro CDP and Polymer Custom; Kahr PM9 & CW9; S&W models 6906, 386PD, 66; Taurus 85 Ultralite Ti; Browning Buckmark;

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  6. #6
    Member Array TWeatherford's Avatar
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    Thanks for the suggestions. Probably a dry bag would be the best idea, I really can't afford any problems with this gun (my one and only currently).

    Thanks for the tips, bgglock. We'll have to check that out. I actually did Mammoth Cave to Houchin ferry last weekend. We checked out the cave, camped about 7 miles in at a nice elevated campsite.
    Be Prepared

  7. #7
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    Your gun will be totally fine after complete immersion! Look at the military for a comparison. SEALS, Force Recon and Special Forces submerse their weapons all the time.

    However, if you are camping out, I would not wait until I got home to clean it.

    When you pull in for the end of the day and are at camp, I would unload it and tip the gun muzzle down to be sure the water drains completely and let it sit like that while I thoroughly dried and wiped clean each individual bullet.

    Most ammo is sealed pretty well at factory, but I always take the time to dry the ammo and run dry Q-Tips around the primer and where the bullet seats into the case to prevent any chance of water migrating into and fouling the powder charge. (May not be necessary, but it makes me feel better)

    Then after the bullets are all dried off, strip, clean and relube your gun and you should be just fine.

    As a side note... If you ever get into a gunfight while in the water, and you've been underwater, do not fire your gun until you've had a chance to let the water drain from your muzzle. If you fire the gun with a muzzle full of water, you could get a barrel rupture due to overpressure.

    This is not the case if you and the gun are completely submerged underwater when you fire. Guns will fire underwater. But when you bring the gun out of the water and there is still excessive water in the barrel, you'll get an overpressure situation.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #8
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    Just to add how I carry on float trips. I usually wear a pair of cargo shorts and put either my SP-101 or my XD9sc inside a ziplock bag and the button it up in my cargo pocket.

    I heard a suggestion recently of placing gun in small Pelican case and the clipping it to one of the thwarts on the boat.

    Not a bad idea and I would do that if it was an only choice, but I prefer having my gun physically on my person. In a swift moving river and I get separated from the canoe, raft, kayak... I don't want my gun headed downstream unattended.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #9
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    Used to kayak with the wife a lot, not so much during the last few years. I had waterproof pouches tied to the top of each kayak and the .357 revolver inside a ziplock bag and then in the pouch. Never a problem, with water, dirtbags, or gators.
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  10. #10
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    Stainless steel is great stuff.

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    +1. I carry a stainless steel Charter Arms Bulldog Pug DAO loaded with Corbon DPX .44 Special 200 grain Barnes X HPs with five more of those loaded on a speed strip. My son-in-law and I will be doing some canoeing in Florida, so I will be on the lookout for any rogue alligator making a beeline for our boat. Dry bags help and I keep the one with my handgun in it attached to my wrist with a strap.
    God bless our troops!

  12. #12
    Member Array kpaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Your gun will be totally fine after complete immersion! Look at the military for a comparison. SEALS, Force Recon and Special Forces submerse their weapons all the time.

    However, if you are camping out, I would not wait until I got home to clean it.

    When you pull in for the end of the day and are at camp, I would unload it and tip the gun muzzle down to be sure the water drains completely and let it sit like that while I thoroughly dried and wiped clean each individual bullet.

    Most ammo is sealed pretty well at factory, but I always take the time to dry the ammo and run dry Q-Tips around the primer and where the bullet seats into the case to prevent any chance of water migrating into and fouling the powder charge. (May not be necessary, but it makes me feel better)

    Then after the bullets are all dried off, strip, clean and relube your gun and you should be just fine.

    As a side note... If you ever get into a gunfight while in the water, and you've been underwater, do not fire your gun until you've had a chance to let the water drain from your muzzle. If you fire the gun with a muzzle full of water, you could get a barrel rupture due to overpressure.

    This is not the case if you and the gun are completely submerged underwater when you fire. Guns will fire underwater. But when you bring the gun out of the water and there is still excessive water in the barrel, you'll get an overpressure situation.
    To add to above.
    Back in boot camp after our week in the field our DIs had us take our M16s into the shower to get them clean. We used real hot water and than put CLP (?) on them to get them lubed up again. NEver did see any rust on our weapons so...
    K.Paul
    Semper Fi

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    This is not the case if you and the gun are completely submerged underwater when you fire. Guns will fire underwater. But when you bring the gun out of the water and there is still excessive water in the barrel, you'll get an overpressure situation.
    I am not, say again, NOT trying to start anything, but any gun will have overpressure while underwater (excepting the Glocks fitted with the Marine Firing Pin Cups). Additionally, the shockwave of the water can cause internal organ damage that may not become apparent until later (sometimes days later).

    My facts as I understand them are up for debate, but I would strongly advise against an Underwater Discharge.

    To the OP, bring your cleaning kit (or a field expedient version) and clean it at the first available and safe opportunity if it goes in the drink.

    It'll be fine.

    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    I'm curious...but I thought you needed a permit to carry in a NP...provided the state you are in permitted carry in parks....you may want to double-check that, as rangers/LEOs are sometimes mistaken on the law. Do your research, because "Ranger Rick said I could" doesn't hold up well...for your own protection.

    Secondly, if carrying in a kayak or canoe...one word: lanyard. If for whatever reason your canoe or kayak overturns, you don't want your gun to become separated from your person. Just a suggestion.
    Last edited by SIGguy229; May 9th, 2010 at 11:06 AM.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Last year I found myself in an unscheduled wrestling match with my daughter while out kayaking (was nearly unable to catch one of the boats too, after it floated WAYYY down the river ). Anyway, my keltec P3AT was IWB with a cheapo uncle mikes...WAS IWB, then it fell out and had to be dug out of the sand. Amazing how much sand got in that gun in less than 5 seconds...

    So I was a bit concerned because the little keltecs have a reputation for being fussy. I got it home, cleaned it a couple times...used the gunblaster stuff to try and blow out the grit, but was unable to get rid of the "gritty" feel when working the slide. It was a good while before I could get to the range and until I did, I assumed I only could rely on ONE round, fearing it would jam. Many months later, I hit the range and not so much as a hiccup. Here, it's almost a year later and she's perfectly reliable and not a trace of corrosion anywhere to be found. This is a little semiauto that many consider junk... I should think your revo would do just fine...just clean and lube everything before and after. Have fun :)
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