Introducing my parents to CC
This is a discussion on Introducing my parents to CC within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm in the position of having to introduce my parents to handguns and concealed carry, and it's not been the easiest of times. For starters, ...
May 9th, 2010 03:53 AM
May 9th, 2010 06:02 AM
Well... I used to have a BERSA Thunder .380. It was a beautiful (and well reviewed) gun, but I couldn't find any ammo for it, so...
That was right after someone somewhere got elected, and the REAL Gun Grab took place...
Kel-Tec, Kahr Arms, and Ruger all make very well thought of "Mouse Guns".
I wouldn't disparage the little .380 too much. It's better than nothing, and some of the defensive ammo for it is very effective.
That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...
Don’t mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.
Convenire Volui Spectatus
May 9th, 2010 06:22 AM
I think you need to combat the image of large caliber = cowboy...find out where that came from, because it sounds like gun store/gun club lore to me.
Secondly, I recommend you get them to shoot what they are comfortable (and enjoy!) shooting.... let that be .380, .38, 9mm, .40, .45, etc... Then have them choose the platform to shoot.
I think the second point would be much easier than the first to overcome. Education goes a long way...after that, a defensive mindset...
- know the difference
is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
May 9th, 2010 08:57 AM
Get them some training/safety instruction.
Originally Posted by BanditJack
Most sporting/Gun clubs have access to an NRA certified instructor.
After they have had this you can advise them on a gun and oversee their shooting skils.
On guns - keep in mind that the smaller the gun , the
harder it is to manipulate and even a .380 can KICK
if the gun only weighs ounces.
My personal recommendation for newbies is a STEEL J Frame S&W in .38 special - start off with wadcutter ammo.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
May 9th, 2010 12:21 PM
Although I personally don't agree with the argument that says you should shoot whatever ammo the local police do, it's a starting point, and it lets you make the argument: "Dad, any prosecutor or cop will understand that 9mm Gold Dot is a responsible defensive round because that's what the police here use; it won't make you look like a cowboy vigilante." Or something along those lines... It'll get the door open, I think, to discussing the better defensive cartridges.
Find a range that rents, and see what you can get them to try. As a side benefit, the range may not rent out anything below 9mm, or if they have a couple of .380s, the ammo may be too expensive. You can always start them on .22LR to get the shooting basics, but if you want to try to steer them towards larger calibers, I would say go with whatever full-size 9mm fits their hands the best---real caliber, mild recoil in a full-sized gun, better sight radius. CZs, Browings, and the SR-9 are pretty slim in 9mm for folks with smaller hands; SIG P226 or something in a Glock if a wider grip is a better fit.
“What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia
SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.
May 9th, 2010 12:29 PM
Tell him that Clint Eastwood and John Wayne carried .45LC revolvers so as long as you carry something different you aren't considered a cowboy.
I'm kidding but maybe offer to join him in a class and let him hear it from a certified instructor (read authority on the subject here) as to what is acceptable for defense. Maybe he just needs to hear it from someone who is paid to instruct on these matters.
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.
May 9th, 2010 12:38 PM
if they are new to firearms
I would like to strongly suggest a revolver if a person is new to firearms, the safty of knowing when the cylander is open and empty the firearm is unloaded versus the possibility of one in the chamber, as well as I know that many women, and those of us "older and wiser" people may have a dificult time in pulling back the slide to a semi-auto. Thank you for being a good child and assisting in making a wise decision with your parents. Thay raised you well.
May 9th, 2010 01:59 PM
I would suggest a training course from someone who isn't a overly gungho teacher. Once they get comfortable, they may in fact not have a hard time with a 9MM, but 380 is fine, except for ammo price and availability. My wife has a Sig P232......fantastic gun (looks like a Walther PPK if you are unfamiliar).
Nothing wrong with a 380, but it would be nice for them to get ammo at Wally World and 380 is almost non-existant.
"I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy!" - Dorothy Parker
May 9th, 2010 10:52 PM
.380 is a good starting point for a beginner, whether it is a beginner shooter or Concealed Carry citizen. With proper defensive ammo and a gun that isn't a micro .380, it should suit the purpose you are trying to achieve and make shooting enjoyable. I started my "collection" with a Bersa Thunder .380. It is a great firearm and is low cost and low maintenance. Extremely easy to take apart and put back together. Beretta also makes a fine .380 that is a good weight and length to make it comfortable to shoot/carry. Do not start your parents off with a tiny .380 because they won't enjoy it and it will steer them away from the idea. A .38 revolver might also be a good idea for them. I always like to include the following information for those that are concerned with smaller calibers:
The often referred to "knock-down power" implies the ability of a bullet to move its target. This is nothing more than momentum of the bullet. It is the transfer of momentum that will cause a target to move in response to the blow received. "Isaac Newton proved this to be the case mathematically in the 17th Century, and Benjamin Robins verified it experimentally through the invention and use of the ballistic pendulum to determine muzzle velocity by measurement of the pendulum motion."
Goddard amply proves the fallacy of "knock-down power" by calculating the heights (and resultant velocities) from which a one pound weight and a ten pound weight must be dropped to equal the momentum of 9mm and .45ACP projectiles at muzzle velocities, respectively. The results are revealing. In order to equal the impact of a 9mm bullet at its muzzle velocity, a one pound weight must be dropped from a height of 5.96 feet, achieving a velocity of 19.6 fps. To equal the impact of a .45ACP bullet, the one pound weight needs a velocity of 27.1 fps and must be dropped from a height of 11.4 feet. A ten pound weight equals the impact of a 9mm bullet when dropped from a height of 0.72 inches (velocity attained is 1.96 fps), and equals the impact of a .45 when dropped from 1.37 inches (achieving a velocity of 2.71 fps).
A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years. The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball. Tissue damage is the only physical link to incapacitation within the desired time frame, i.e., instantaneously.
"Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness"
Special Agent UREY W. PATRICK
FIREARMS TRAINING UNIT
Bersa Thunder .380
SIG P250 Full Size and SC 9mm
May 10th, 2010 03:46 PM
Thanks guys! I think the Ruger LCR or LCP would be a good starting point for them. I do think that the .380 can be a great DC if appropriately outfitted with good ammo.
Been looking into getting them properly trained. Some good ranges nearby with NRA Instructors.
lol @ Some1Any1: Physics is good :) Yea, there's no "knock-down power", I just like bigger rounds that leave bigger holes.
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