New to 9mm

This is a discussion on New to 9mm within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Have narrowed down my 9mm options to either Stoeger Cougar, or CZ 75 P- 01. Would appreciate some pro/con feedback from those who have experience ...

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Thread: New to 9mm

  1. #1
    New Member Array CRK's Avatar
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    New to 9mm

    Have narrowed down my 9mm options to either Stoeger Cougar, or CZ 75 P- 01. Would appreciate some pro/con feedback from those who have experience in using both, Thanx

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    Array OPFOR's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum! I don't have any real experience with either, but general feedback on both seems to be positive. There are a number of forum members who carry CZs, so you should be able to find out anything you'd like to know.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    New Member Array CRK's Avatar
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    Thanks for the welcome note. Best regards.

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    Senior Member Array AZ Desertrat's Avatar
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    CZ's are under rated weapons....they are a very well made pistol for the money spent. I do not own any myself....but my buddies do...and I have shot a lot of them....I just may get one.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government--lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." --Patrick Henry

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    New Member Array bogidu's Avatar
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    I have . . . .

    experience with both. I bought a Stoeger Cougar 8000 F model about a year and half ago. FANTASTIC shooter, especially for the money, accurate as all getout, and I didn't put more than 1000 rounds through it before I sold it. WHY did I sell it if it was that good? Because I made the mistake of buying a CZ P01 (or 75 Model D, depending if you get the European version).

    I bought the Stoeger and used it for a combat pistol training class, I learned very quickly that the ONLY thing that bothered me about was the placement of the decock/safety. I would decock and safe it after a magazine change and it would slow me down because I'd forget to turn off the safety after the next magazine change. I recommend that if you get one, see if you can find one in the D or G configuration, although when I called Stoeger was told they were not available in the US. Another option you may consider is the type C, D, or G models of the Beretta PX4 Storm.

    Now, about the CZ. Another fantastic pistol. I can't speak enough about them, accurate, durable, etc. My plus was the lack of decock/safety. Also another perk was the addition of an accessory rail. Unfortunately I had to buy two, one to put lasers/lights on and the other for concealed carry. Downside is you've gotta look to find holsters for these, but they are there. (anyone know where I can find a holster for one that's got a unimax laser attached?)

    You can pay more money for another gun, but it doesn't mean you'll get a better gun. Oh, and fwiw, I'm not a glock junkie because I have a smaller, narrower palm than most people and the Glocks just don't fit me very well. I say this because I'm sure a few responses you will get will be 'just buy a Glock!'.

    Pricewise, I bought my Stoeger on sale for 349, one of my CZ's for 460 and the other for 500. I haven't really seriously looked for how much it would cost to pickup a PX4.

    Either way, can't go wrong.
    Last edited by bogidu; May 10th, 2010 at 11:52 AM.

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    New Member Array bogidu's Avatar
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    Oh, and one other difference. Both pistols fit very well and have a very natural point, however for me the CZ just feels. . . perfect. I can't explain it, but it feels incredibly firm in my hand. I know, that's a personal preference thing, but from the first time I held one I knew I had to own one . . . or two . . . .

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    Member Array mreymann's Avatar
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    Both great guns

    You wouldn't go wrong with either one. I have both and I love them. In my opinion the Stoeger has a better trigger and is more economical by $150-200. The p-01 is smaller and has a slightly better feel and grip. Of the two I carry the p-01 for it's higher comfort due to it's size and lower weight. you will probably be just as accurate with either one.

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    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum & You can't go wrong with either gun ; )
    H/D
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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Don't have experience with either. So, just from an investment standpoint, I would say CZ.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    Never shot either, but played with both and think they're both a good bet. I'd have a cougar for carrying if it was a little thinner.

    Also, welcome fellow Idahoan.
    M&P Shield9; RIA 1911 Tactical 9mm;...many long guns

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    Why choose either of those guns? Go with an M&P or Glock, no need in getting obscure.
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    New Member Array CRK's Avatar
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    Thanks. Will check it out....... Regards

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    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    I have a CZ which was confiscated/claimed by my sister(no it didn't have the pink grips). It's that nice of a shooter. Not quite my cup of tea for CCW, but it's a great gun in every other way.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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    I can't speak for the Cougar, but I can for the CZ P-01. I have the P-01 as well as the P-06 (.40 cal version). Ergonomics are some of the best out there, accurate and reliable. The P-01 is certified as a NATO weapon, having undergone rigorous testing.

    CZ-USA -> CZ P-01 gets NATO approval. The next Generation of perfect pistols

    February 2003
    The P-01 is now a NATO classified pistol and issued the NATO stock number NSN 1005-16-000-8619.

    The CZ P-01 is the culmination of several years of exhaustive design and testing. Ceska Zbrojovka has always had some of the most rigorous testing requirements in the world but, the Czech National police has required that they go even further, the testing regiment for this new pistol was the most demanding anyone has ever encountered. There are almost 20 specific requirements covering everything from accuracy to interchangability, from safety to reliability/durability and everything in between.

    The pistol: The CZ P-01 is a Gen 3 pistol that began as a requirement for a lightweight compact pistol that will deliver the accuracy and durability of a full size, full weight pistol. This was no small task, several manufacturers declined to even start the project.

    The first thing you notice about this pistol is the M3 light rail on the frame, a first for CZ, the alloy frame is a little wider at the top than a steel CZ 75. This adds strength and rigidity for mounting the light and increasing the accuracy and service life of the pistol. The P-01 also sports enhanced controls as well as a drop free magazine and a lanyard loop.

    The pistol was required to pass a wide variety of tests:

    The police required that the pistol ensure the highest level of comfort, an extended slide release was added as well as an extended magazine release and the trigger was reshaped to give a more consistent pull throughout the trigger stroke.

    The pistol must be 100% reliable in extreme conditions, the following is a list of some of the minimum requirements.

    Must be able to complete the following without failure:

    4000 dry firings
    3000 De-cockings
    Operator level disassembly 1350 times with out ware or damage to components.
    Complete disassembly 150 times, this is all the way down, pins, springs etc.
    100% interchangability, any number of pistols randomly selected, disassembled, parts mixed and reassembled with no failures of any kind including loss of accuracy.


    Safety requirements:

    Drop test
    1.5 meter (4.9”) drop test, this is done 54 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked. Dropping the pistol on the butt, the muzzle, back of the slide, sides of the gun, top of the slide, in essence, any angle that you could drop the gun from. This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

    3meter drop (9.8”) 5 times with the pistol loaded (blank) and the hammer cocked, This is done on concrete and 0 failures are allowed! A failure is the gun firing.

    After these tests are complete the gun must fire without service.

    The factory contracted an independent lab to do additional testing on guns that previously passed the drop tests. These pistol were dropped an additional 352 times without failure.

    The pistol must also complete an environmental conditions test:
    This means cold, heat, dust/sand and mud.
    The pistol must fire after being frozen for 24 hours at –35C (-36F).
    The pistol must fire after being heated for 24 hours at 70C (126F)
    The pistol must fire after being submerged in mud, sand and combinations including being stripped of oil then completing the sand and mud tests again.

    Service life:
    The service life requirement from the Czech police was 15,000 rounds of +P ammo!
    The pistol will exceed 30,000 rounds with ball 9mm.

    Reliability:
    The reliability requirements for the P-01 pistol are 99.8%, that’s a .2% failure rate.
    This equals 20 stoppages in 10,000 rounds or 500 “Mean Rounds Between Failure” (MRBF)
    During testing, the average number of stoppages was only 7 per 15,000 rounds fired, this is a .05% failure rate, a MRBF rate of 2142 rounds! Over 4 time the minimum acceptable requirement.
    The U.S. Army MRBF requirement is 495 rounds for 9mm pistols with 115 grain Ball ammunition.

    Heritage:
    The P-01 is based on the CZ 75, the most used pistol in the world. Over 60 countries use it as the standard side arm of their Armies, National police forces, National security agencies or other Law enforcement organizations. No other pistol can make this claim.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  16. #15
    Senior Member Array mojust's Avatar
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    If you can, test several CZs and pick the one with the best trigger. It's a terrific pistol but sometimes the triggers are gritty and take a long time to break in.
    Sig 226, 228. Glock 19, 23. Smith Model 60,and 1911. XD45 Tactical. Mossberg 930 SPX.

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