Frustrating Range Day with Kahr P45
This is a discussion on Frustrating Range Day with Kahr P45 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As some forum members might remember, I am the owner of a Kahr P45 of which I did a pretty well extensive review that I ...
June 11th, 2006 03:12 PM
Frustrating Range Day with Kahr P45
As some forum members might remember, I am the owner of a Kahr P45 of which I did a pretty well extensive review that I posted on this forum as well as several other gun sites.
What I reported was that the gun was a great shooter, had great handling characteristics but in a certain sense was a "diamond in the rough." Why? The ejection is extremely erratic in my sample P45. One six round magazine (plus one in the chamber) could have each one of those seven empty cartridge cases fly in seven different direction....including my head. The trigger pull and reset were extremely long sometimes causing me to have one round not hit to point of aim if I let my concentration drift even for a microsecond. Finally, seating the magazines were difficult when there are rounds in the magazine.
On Friday, I fired 80 rounds of Winchester 230 grain SXT (S45) and 50 rounds of Winchester Ranger +P 230 grain SXT (RA45TP).
I hate to report that the erratic ejection still exists....I got beaned in the head hard a few times. The nickle cases round the rim of the case heads were getting gouged something fierce. This two things led to four failures-to-eject (FTEs). Two of the FTE were empty cartridge cases slipping the extractor and remaining lodged in the chamber. There were easy to remove. One FTE was a double feed (actually the empty was wedged by a fresh round). The malfunction breakdown was one FTE with the S45 ammo and the last three with the RA45TP.
One time the slide did not close after one round was discharged. A little tug of the slide rectified that one.
One of the magazine plastic baseplates broke when the empty magazine hit the concrete floor.....arrrggghhh! Yesterday was one of the few times I did not "line" the floor ahead of me with extra pieces of cardboard to give a slight measure of protection to my magazines. Other plastic "plated" magazines have survived repeated similar treatment. In fairness, this could happen with any magazine.
Another point about the magazines, for some reason, when firing the RA45TP, empty magazines were not consistently ejecting freely from the gun. That hasn't happened before and it was another frustrating issue.
Prior to firing those two rounds, I've fired CCI Blazer Brass 230 grain FMJ, Winchester 230 grain FMJ white box, and Remington UMC 230 JHP ammo through my P45. Prior to yesterday, I have had two malfunctions in about 800 or so rounds. Those two were within Kahr proscribed 200 round break-in period.
As an related matter, about a month ago, I fired some 80 rounds or so of S45 through my HK USP .45 ACP and had one FTE. I normally "crush grip" my guns, so I know the root of cause for my USP and now P45 FTE'ing with S45 was not limp-wristing the guns....could it be the ammo?
Back to the P45, I think the extractor is the root cause of the problems, but I could be wrong. As such, my P45 will be taking a trip to Kahr to get these issues addressed.....and to get some night sights installed.
To close this sad tale of woe....and to get out the real reason behind this story is to say that the moral of the story is to take Massad Ayoob's suggestion to heart: don't trust a gun with a particular load until you run at least 200 trouble-free rounds through it. To do otherwise is to invite what happened to me (in the safety and security of a range) to someone in a potentially life-or-death situation......
.....time to get my Kimber Combat Carry 1911 .45 ACP out of mothballs and training with it while the P45 is at Kahr.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
June 11th, 2006 03:59 PM
I now know to save my $ for better guns
June 11th, 2006 04:05 PM
Sorry you got one that needs fixin.
I try to resist buying newly released guns of any kind, they usually
have growing pains.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
June 11th, 2006 04:19 PM
For every gun make there will be ones that need a tip back or two. No such thing as any make or model that works 100% of the time. Just not so. Each of us has had a gun that has worked 100% and if you've bought more than a few, you've likely had one that needed work. These guns are commercially manufactured. There is no such thing as zero defect when it comes to manufacturing anything. That's why good warrantys and good customer service are a real part of the "value" of any weapon. Some will read a post about a bad experience with a gun and be diswayed from ever buying that brand as a result. That's unfortunate and, we'll, fickle. I do think some brands are more reliable than others and new models tend to have bugs just like the first year for a car or refrigerator. But if a company stands behind their product, then you're golden. Even if the warranty is only one year, i think any serious shooter can test out a new weapon in under a year. I think the P45 will be a great weapon once he works with Kahr to get it fixed although i do wonder about the recoil on such a light weapon.
I had a keltec P3at that was pure junk at first, however, I worked with Keltec and after two trips home and a thousand rounds of testings I have a fanstastic pocket pistol that is as reliable as they come. keltec stood behind their product.
Now my expectation would be different if I'm buying a custom gun for $2000. For that money they ought to thoroughly wring it out at the custom shop but truth be told, they don't. They do a lot more by hand perhaps but it's still a production gun, just with more care.
So I think we should hate it when our NIB gun is messed up but we should also be practical and realistic about it.
The Kahr line of handguns are outstanding weapons for concealed carry. So are the Sigs, Kimber, Springer and many many more. There are cheap weapons out there but they're reputation is based on not the occassional bad gun but on thousands of bad guns.
I hope Kahr does you right and you get that think thump'en!
June 11th, 2006 04:33 PM
sounds like an extracter tension or hook shape issue to me too .. good luck with it bud call betty @ kahr and see what she says
Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .
Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.
June 11th, 2006 07:35 PM
Excellent points Gideon.
I don't have a doubt my P45 is a good gun....just a diamond in the rough. I'm a die-hard Kahr fan; as some member know, I sing praises about my PM9 and P9 Covert 9mm's...I carry those off-duty instead of my SIGARMS P229. Besides, maybe my gun just doesn't like Winchester SXT.
I'll let all of you know how the gun behaves after it get's tuned and then returned to me by Kahr.
USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947
June 11th, 2006 08:08 PM
Real bummer tho when a supposed high qual' gun does not do it's thing reliably. Hope it'll get remedies and fixed.
This occurs with the Rohrbaugh R9 - a somewhat ''on the edge'' design-wise small pocket 9mm and a thorobred too.
It has for a few folks been real tricky to get reliability and yet most people do fine. Seems any ''up there'' gun with basically good design and engineering can and does produce the odd ones that just won't run right.
Chris - P95
NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.
"To own a gun and assume that you are armed
is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."
- a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.
June 11th, 2006 08:17 PM
Sorry to hear about the problems, it sounds like the extractor tension isn't quite right as well as maybe the hook is chipped or broken. Please keep us informed as this unfolds, I'm strongly considering a P45 myself as a warm weather gun in the very near future and it'd be my first Kahr. Have you had the folks at Kahr work on any of your triggers? Seems like it could be tuned to a more crisp break without all the travel.
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