The BEST Carry Gun and Condition...

This is a discussion on The BEST Carry Gun and Condition... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm interested to hear everybody's thoughts on this intensely (often religiously) debated topic. I've heard many different theories and discussion points over the years myself. ...

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Thread: The BEST Carry Gun and Condition...

  1. #1
    Member Array DS99's Avatar
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    The BEST Carry Gun and Condition...

    I'm interested to hear everybody's thoughts on this intensely (often religiously) debated topic.

    I've heard many different theories and discussion points over the years myself. In the course of these discussions there are a number of concepts that really seem to be more accurately described as cliche's that seem to always get thrown around, some of which I personally feel are potentially harmful to someone who wishes to use a weapon for self-defense purposes.

    I will add some content below for the purposes of discussion, not for the purposes of offending anybody....healthy debate ultimately makes us all smarter (or should).

    One of my personal pet peeves is the old "you have to pick the gun that fits you". In my opinion, this really is both ridiculous AND potentially harmful in a self-defense application. I don't for a minute discount the ergonomic requirements of individuals with differently sized hands, but most modern handguns are very well suited for the vast majority of adults. From a high-performance technical shooting perspective there are some limiting factors from one gun to another based on egronomics. From a self-defense perspective though, it is a very rare case where this really becomes a factor. The factors that affect performance under stress are training and the development of unconscious competency in the use and application of the tool, not the tool itself. Selection of the tool should be based on the task it will be used for. You wouldn't buy a little eyeglasses sized screwdriver if you were planning to take apart your washing machine...so why would you buy a little tiny pocket sized gun that carries a low number of very small rounds and can't hit anything past a few feet to use if you get in a gun battle?

    A second pet peeve is "something is better than nothing and you're really just trying to scare him off anyway". While the first part of this statement IS true I fail to see how an instructor can possibly justify recommending substandard equipment to a student simply because it's better than nothing. If all I can possibly get my hands on is a little .25 ACP or a subcompact .380, then sure, it's better than nothing. Let's be honest though, this really isn't EVER the case. If you're going to select a tool for any task, then why on earth would you purposefully CHOOSE something that you KNOW doesn't perform very well? As for the second part...deterrence should come before defense if possible...no arguments there. However, a fight is a fight. Once the deterrence fails, you will either win or you will lose. For goodness sake...if you have options (which you do) pick a tool that can do ALL of the jobs you might need it to do.

    More to follow, I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

    D.S.
    Sealed Mindset, Director of Training
    www.sealedmindset.com

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array wormy's Avatar
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    I agree DS. Thats why I have a Glock 23 on my side. Its works and I can shoot it accuratly and it makes a big hole.
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    Ok, many forum members know me as revolver guy with a varied background. But in the abstract of this thread I would choose this particular sidearm for serious work in unfriendly venues.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    usually i carry a 1911 cocked locked and ready to rock. But often i feel i need a higher rd count so i carry a g19. Comprimise of more powerful round(45) and higher round count(9mm)

    after looking at your site, it seems you probably already know the answer to this question.

    Happy Memorial Day and thank you for serving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Some of us live/work in areas where having someone notice a tumor-like lump on your hip could/would have life-altering consequences.

    So...I'll take a .380 LCP in my pocket, or a G26 in a Smartcarry, thanks. No hand cannon on the hip for me.

    Then, there are those folks who carry a gun to live, but they do not live to carry a gun. Sure, some compromises in clothing are OK, but you should not have to turn your life upside down just to have a tool on you for self defense. There's a fine line between prepared...and paranoid.

    As civilians, our only duty is to get away from danger. We have no duty to go into harms way, nor are we under any obligation to aid anyone else. As such, the requirements are perhaps less than what a LEO would need. I know I know - civilians have no backup, that is true. But we also only need to be able to retreat.

    I will agree that the idea of "gun fit" is overblown. I can shoot many different types of arms just fine - I just adapt to it.

    I'll go make some popcorn...this should be good!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    For me, it's the HK P2000SK with light LEM trigger in .40 caliber. HK's reliability, one in the chamber, a longish yet light crisp trigger, every trigger pull the same, no external safety lever or hammer, very accurate, ammo-brand tolerant, a proven yet manageable defense caliber, and light enough to carry all day, every day. It may cost more than others but this is a time when I got more than what I paid! Put it in a Crossbreed SuperTuck IWB or even a SmartCarry and it's well concealed.

  8. #7
    Member Array 12 gauge's Avatar
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    I have the luxury of owning several hand guns and I rotate them frequently for CCW. My two favorites are; (1) Wilson Combat CQB Compact, 45 ACP, customized to my needs, but heavy to carry all day, every day; (2) Glock G27, also customized with aluminum trigger and stainless slide. Both are great shooters, but for all day carry in hot weather, the G27 wins out!

    Shoot often, perfect practice make better shooters!

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    Ex Member Array WhoWeBePart1's Avatar
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    I purchased what felt right for my needs and my hands. My Glock 17 and 27 do their jobs nicely. I prefer to carry my 27 in the warmer months and will start to carry the 17 once the colder months start to roll around. I like my 17 better than my 27 even though the 27 will make a bigger hole I can make a lot more with the 17.

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    Regarding picking a handgun that "fits" a certain individual is something based not only on the grip ergonomics of how a particular handgun physically fits into the hand but, also how naturally it "points where the shooter looks" (which is in my opinion) very important to some self defensive shooting styles that do not make use of the handgun sights.
    So it is more than just being able to physically operate one handgun as VS another.
    That is not to say that a defensive shooter cannot force an override of a handgun that does not naturally point but, why not start off with one that that is ideal since this is America and the selection is great and diverse and we can all pretty much carry and shoot whatever handgun we wish.

  11. #10
    Member Array afcarpenter's Avatar
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    While I see where you're going with the fit statements, I would only somewhat disagree though. While you make a great point behind not buying an eyeglass screwdriver to take apart your washing machine, in other words, buy a gun that is designed for the situation, I would add that some guns just don't feel right. For instance, I am 6'3" and 200 pounds. Not large but large enough. I can handle any full size gun as well as the subcompacts but I have to admit, though I love Springfield 1911's, their XD's just to "feel" right in my hands. Not that their not fabulous guns, they just don't have the feel of my Sig or Glock. I can't explain it, but it's real.

    However let's get to the point, I'm the person that loves the tried and true 45 ACP with the 40 S&W being a VERY close second. My carry gun (when I'm in a state that allows CC...which I am not in right now) is a Sig 220 carry. I have a Glock 22 that I am thoroughly in love with as well.

    The reason I choose these two manufacturers (and weapons specifically) is particularly for the fit. They do seem like an extension of my arm when I hold them. I cannot say that about all pistols...most especially my duty arm the Beretta 92. I HATE THAT PISTOL!!!! Also, the Sig is very easy to conceal at the 4:00 position for me. Round count leave a bit to be desired but I figure my choice weapon for getting me out of a bad situation is my brain...though even that has failed me more than once in Iraq.

  12. #11
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    ...unlike the rest, the best is that one that I have not bought yet! Damn gun clerks know it because I always show it!

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DS99 View Post
    I'm interested to hear everybody's thoughts on this intensely (often religiously) debated topic.

    I've heard many different theories and discussion points over the years myself. In the course of these discussions there are a number of concepts that really seem to be more accurately described as cliche's that seem to always get thrown around, some of which I personally feel are potentially harmful to someone who wishes to use a weapon for self-defense purposes.

    I will add some content below for the purposes of discussion, not for the purposes of offending anybody....healthy debate ultimately makes us all smarter (or should).

    One of my personal pet peeves is the old "you have to pick the gun that fits you". In my opinion, this really is both ridiculous AND potentially harmful in a self-defense application. I don't for a minute discount the ergonomic requirements of individuals with differently sized hands, but most modern handguns are very well suited for the vast majority of adults. Please don't forget that all of us are not 25 and in the prime of our physical conditioning. Those of us that are members of the older generation DO tend to choose a weapon that fits our needs based on our opinions of needs. From a high-performance technical shooting perspective there are some limiting factors from one gun to another based on egronomics. From a self-defense perspective though, it is a very rare case where this really becomes a factor. The factors that affect performance under stress are training and the development of unconscious competency in the use and application of the tool, not the tool itself. I definitely agree that continued and varied training is necessary, regardless of age and the development of "unconscious competency", with your chosen tool, can be greatly enhanced on a daily basis through dry fire practice. Selection of the tool should be based on the task it will be used for. You wouldn't buy a little eyeglasses sized screwdriver if you were planning to take apart your washing machine...so why would you buy a little tiny pocket sized gun that carries a low number of very small rounds and can't hit anything past a few feet to use if you get in a gun battle? I think the answer to your question, is that MOST folks that have their CWP, feel that based on research and history, that most gun battles will occur in the range of 21 feet or less and they plan on it probably being the LESS (a few feet). Fortunately, even at my age, I have chosen a tool that will function at the necessary range without worrying about the adversary having to be close to me due to lack of firepower in my tool/weapon of choice.

    A second pet peeve is "something is better than nothing and you're really just trying to scare him off anyway". While the first part of this statement IS true I fail to see how an instructor can possibly justify recommending substandard equipment to a student simply because it's better than nothing. I totally agree. However, with that being said, something (substandard caliber) IS better than nothing, although you do not have to recommend it and do not have to support that choice by the individual. It needs to be made perfectly clear the limitations involved in a substandard selection of defensive weapon. If all I can possibly get my hands on is a little .25 ACP or a subcompact .380, then sure, it's better than nothing. Let's be honest though, this really isn't EVER the case. If you're going to select a tool for any task, then why on earth would you purposefully CHOOSE something that you KNOW doesn't perform very well? As for the second part...deterrence should come before defense if possible...no arguments there. However, a fight is a fight. Once the deterrence fails, you will either win or you will lose. For goodness sake...if you have options (which you do) pick a tool that can do ALL of the jobs you might need it to do. AMEN.

    More to follow, I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts.

    D.S.
    Sealed Mindset, Director of Training
    www.sealedmindset.com
    I've tried to give some thoughts from an "ole man" in bold above. I've chosen a Glock 26 and/or Glock 19 as my EDC and train with that weapon constantly, both dry fire and hot range training. I know I shall never equal the best defensive gun fighters, but I shall strive to improve through eveything I do, so that if and when the time comes, I will be equal to the task at hand. JMO
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  14. #13
    Member Array aedinius's Avatar
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    My favorite gun to shoot is my P228. My most accurate gun overall is my Glock 23. It's terrible. Tragic, even.
    Knowing is half the battle.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    I love my P229 and I also keep my S&W 686 around the house for defensive purposes. Both guns are completely reliable and the revolver in particular is good for my wife, who never shoots and therefore needs the most forgiving platform possible.

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Regarding picking a handgun that "fits" a certain individual is something based not only on the grip ergonomics of how a particular handgun physically fits into the hand but, also how naturally it "points where the shooter looks" (which is in my opinion) very important to some self defensive shooting styles that do not make use of the handgun sights.
    So it is more than just being able to physically operate one handgun as VS another.
    That is not to say that a defensive shooter cannot force an override of a handgun that does not naturally point but, why not start off with one that that is ideal since this is America and the selection is great and diverse and we can all pretty much carry and shoot whatever handgun we wish.

    +1..

    as for the OP I agree with some of your stuff but not all of it. Like QKShooter said natural point of aim can be affected by your make/model. I can't see myself pulling a Glock on a BG and hitting him with the natural point of aim. the grip angle is anything but in a natural position. (not ripping on Glock they work for some)

    also there are many different kinds of handguns like mentioned above.

    I chose my (S&W M&P40) for the multi-purposes i wanted it to serve.
    #1 EDC (every day carry) light, medium sized, not blocky

    #2 reliable/top quality/built to last/withstand any abuse

    #3 More power than a 9mm for when I'm up north in the backwoods

    #4 High capacity (for 2 reasons, BG's come with friends, and so Obama couldn't do what his lying friend Clinton did with the 10round limit.)

    Final Answer the American Made Smith and Wesson M&P 40S&W

    It went above and beyond my ergonomics on how the grip and over all feel is. It fits to my hand, instead of my hand fitting to it. It is a nice feature.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

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