Infallible Humans and Safeties - Page 3

Infallible Humans and Safeties

This is a discussion on Infallible Humans and Safeties within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There's been a few times when I have been shooting clays, that I forgot to hit the safety off. My first training session with my ...

View Poll Results: If you have ever fired a gun with a safety have you ever forgotten to take it off?

Voters
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  • Of course, I am human.

    153 85.96%
  • Never, I have always trained on this step and will not permit myself to make this mistake.

    20 11.24%
  • I have never fired a Rifle, Shotgun, or Pistol with a manual safety and I am not sure why I am responding to this poll.

    5 2.81%
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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    There's been a few times when I have been shooting clays, that I forgot to hit the safety off.

    My first training session with my 1911, I forgot once, but realized it and was still able to get my shots off under 2 seconds. Lucky, I guess.

    That's why professional training is so important, so that it all becomes automatic.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source


  2. #32
    Member Array Viper7's Avatar
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    I said "no" because I don't recall ever forgetting. My service carry was a Hi-Power and I shot a Colt 1911 on a pistol team in the 60's and 70's. That thumb safety has been pretty heavily ingrained in my thinking. Today I have eight active pistols and the oldest was designed in the mid 90's. Only three of these "modern" pistols has a manual safety. [the XD c 45 has a grip safety that I like, but it doesn't count] I still swipe off the safety in my non-so equipped guns before shooting. I guess I haven't been put under enough stress yet.

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Well, of course not, the weapon did not fire; the safety was still on.

    OK, in the spirit of the poll, yes, I have indeed ATTEMPTED to fire a Browning Hi-Power without remembering the safety lever. As this never occurred with a 1911, I believe that the BHP felt so much like a DA weapon upon drawing it, that I clamped my weapon-hand thumb down, sixgun-style, and then pulled the trigger, without effect. Luckily, the target was a pine cone, or something like that, not a dangerous adversary. Thus ended my brief experiment with the BHP as a duty/carry weapon.

    More serious, was the discovery that I would sometimes not fully depress the grip safety of a 1911, when drawing from my mandated Level 3 duty rig. This was, indeed, with a 1911 that did have a bit of a "speed bump" on the grip safety. I soon gave up using 1911s as duty pistols, though I have since found that with a 1911 with a BIG speed bump, and an undercut trigger guard, carried in a normal holster with zero cant, I always properly engaged the grip safety. FWIW, I have very skinny hands, with natural hollows where they come to rest on a pistol backstrap.

    While this is not a failure to disengage a safety, I have experienced this, quoted from my reply to another thread:

    "I... strongly dislike the AR15 safety. Sure, off-safe-ing is a similar movement, to the 1911, but then the AR15's safety is "off" when the dingus is down. (Yep, I learned the 1911 when LTC Jeff Cooper was the guru for that weapon; thus the "dingus" reference.) Think about it; with the 1911 system and the Walther/1st-3rd Generation S&W/Beretta system, the weapon is ready to fire when the safety lever is horizontal, NOT up or down.

    No matter how much I train myself, I still have an occasional crisis of confidence with the AR15 safety. Flipping the safety off is natural, but my brain will sometimes perceive the safety to be on, when it is actually off; then I want to flip it forward, so it would go into the horizontal position. This is impossible with the non-NFA AR15. (Of course, with a true M4/M16, that would be the full auto or burst position.) The Walther/S&W/Beretta safety system is reinforced every working day, at roll call, during the one-second spark test of the mandated X-26 Taser.

    Therefore, I have a love-hate relationship with the AR15. It is presently the only rifle I can carry on duty. I am still working on a solution; perhaps a customized safety lever? Long-term, I am thinking about certifying to carry a Mini-14 on patrol, but the next cert class will not be until May 2011. I love the Mini's safety; very lefty-friendly, and intuitive for my brain: push toward enemy."

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array surefire7's Avatar
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    I've "bent" many triggers on my shotguns as the bird flew away. Especially great when you're training your dogs.
    "Good decisions come from experience;
    experience comes from bad decisions"

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    Yeah I've done it. Did it with a Beretta 92 in my basic pistol course, and I've made that mistake with rifles from time to time. That is why my 1911s are not my primary HD guns, but a revolver and a SIG P229 pull that duty. It's easiest to screw up under the pressure of actually needing it...

  6. #36
    Member Array bubbahoundog's Avatar
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    This thread is a good example as to why the H&K PSP is such an incredibly safe, and reliable design out there for personal protection with a handgun.

    The "Squeeze cock" safety is as fast as no safety, and as safe as it gets.

  7. #37
    Member Array Wishoot's Avatar
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    Only with my OU shotgun that automatically engages the safety after the guns been broken open.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array CCWFlaRuger's Avatar
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    The first time I fired a 1911, I was staring at the blade sticking up... and it didn't occur to me that I should flip that down...
    "You will not rise to the occasion and you will not default to your level of training. You WILL ONLY default to the level of training you have mastered."
    -Ruger P345; LCP
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    -Phoenix Arms Raven

  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    When I 1st got my M&P and started to train with it, I forgot to click it off a few times. Now it is just 2nd nature to me.
    Glock: G22 .40 S&W and G23 .40 S&W Sig Sauer: P938 9mm Smith and Wesson: Model 437 .38 Spl, Model 65 357 Mag, and Sigma SW9VE 9mm

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    I practice often with my 1911 in addition to my Glocks. I do presentation drills as well and since I do it so much I just naturally sweep the safety off. Even when I use my Glocks my thumb does the motion and more than once I've actually drawn my G23 and without thinking hard on it, thought I missed the safety because my thumb didn't hit anything. It's not hard to transition for me, but I do have to do a few dozen presentation drills to get the sight picture and all that back.

    As for actual real world use, I still say no. The one time I did actually draw was with my 1911 and I distinctly remember the click as I brought it up but luckily never had to pull the trigger.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  11. #41
    Member Array 120mm's Avatar
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    Revising my answer, though. I have never left the safety "on" when attempting to fire an M1911 or AR platform weapon. Well-trained muscle memory, there.

  12. #42
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    Yes, with my 1911 .
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RebelRabbi View Post
    Experience has taught me to appreciate a quick controlled first shot and the simple DA/DAO Pistol/Revolver does this well. The 1911 is a great gun but like you said, I am imperfect plus I get worse under high stress.
    If I might asked, when was this switch DA/DAO/Revolver, it must have been in the last several months?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  14. #44
    Member Array CajunBass's Avatar
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    Deer hunting and IPSC match shooting are the most "high pressure" situations I ever hope/expect to be in. I have never to the best of my recollection forgotten to take the safety off. Or to put it back on for that matter.

    Might do it next time, but so far...
    For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    John 3:16 (NKJV)

  15. #45
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Ya know, this is funny......now.

    The only time I've forgotten to unsafe my gun has been in the woods while hunting..........VERY embarassing and frustrating. I always check it 'safed'....constantly, but a couple of times I've had the crosshairs on target and............DARN it!!!
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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