Need help in a decision....

Need help in a decision....

This is a discussion on Need help in a decision.... within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; First a little back story: I've been a CCW holder in three different states since I was 21 (I'm 53 now) and in all that ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation Need help in a decision....

    First a little back story: I've been a CCW holder in three different states since I was 21 (I'm 53 now) and in all that time the 45acp was my caliber of choice. That was until about 15 years ago, when my weight started to balloon upward. I hardly noticed that for about 10 years, then I discovered that my "shape" (ROUND is a SHAPE) made it tough to carry a 45 without the IWB just pulling my pants down unless I tightened my pants into tourniquet ranges. So I segued into a 9mm. Bought an H&K P30 and have been very happy with that gun.

    Then about three years ago my docs at the VA started making rumblings about health issues looming on the horizon related to my weight -- by then over 300 pounds. About 310 or so. Finally one of them was BLUNT: Doc: How old are you? ME: About 51, why? Doc: Wanna make it to 55? Me: "GULP." Doc: You don't have a LOT wrong with you, but what there is could get REALLY bad. So here is the deal, lose the weight or die early. Since you can't seem to stay on our diets, we suggest you get the surgery. Yup, Gastric Bypass.

    So, I did.

    Now it's exactly a year since I had the operation. I now weigh 175 pounds and I'm loving life! I feel like I'm 25 and I pretty much look it too. My waist size just before the surgery was a 50 and I was shopping in the "Big & Tall" store. Now I wear a 36 and even that is loose. My shirt size went from a XXXL to a MEDIUM.

    To my problem: I bought an XD45 last summer in anticipation of the weight loss and wanting more rounds available than in my 1911 Government Model or my Wife's Commander 45. My Government Model is pretty long in the tooth, as a Remington Rand circa 1943. The XD has these issues: It's been all "gussied up" with the obligatory night sights (in this case tritium fiber optic for enhanced daytime sighting for aging eyes) and a CT laser grip module (also to assist aging eyes). Plush I got a TON of high cap mags. I love the gun with just ONE exception/complaint: The force needed to retract the slide with the non-firing hand is unacceptable. I mean, it take AHNOLD sized strength to pull the slide back to full extension! I had to adjust my TECHNIQUE. Instead of simply pulling the slide to the rear to "show clear," I have had to firmly grasp the top of the slide over the rear sight with the non firing hand and PUNCH forward with the hand gripping the weapon (finger off the trigger of course). This results in a decisive live or empty round extraction and allows for a safety officer to verify weapon status in an idpa match. Still, I have to say, I dislike the requirement to adjust my technique in the first place! If I were going to do it again, I'd avoid the XD45. I have also discovered the XD 45 is too heavy for me to comfortably carry as EDC. 10 rounds in the standard mag and 13 in the plus mag is too heavy on my newly skinny frame until I can really put on some more muscle mass. Also it's too thick, generally. I'm getting too much lower back pain.

    I want to go back to a 1911 and I want a COMPACT. But the trick is I DO NOT WANT a barrel that is under four inches in length. I had a lengthy exchange with the late Jeff Cooper several years ago, prior to his passing. We traded snail mail letters over a period of months and he finally made our discussion a part of his column for Gun & Ammo magazine. We sort of agreed that the 1911 becomes inherently unreliable when the barrel length shrinks to below 4 inches. Please! Don't flame me by saying that YOUR 3 inch micro is flawless! I have owned two of those of different name brands and both were the proverbial Jam-A-Matic. I have owned a Springfield Armory micro and a Para P10. Also witness the fact that WILSON COMBAT offers a reliability package for $100 on any 1911. However they refuse to guarantee their work in writing with any sub four inch barrel of any make in a 1911. That, to me, is pretty telling.

    SO. What I'm looking for is essentially a 1911 with a "Commander's" slide on an "Officer's" frame. I'd like a mag capacity of seven rounds -- which puts it in reach of the original 1911 Government. I think I have narrowed the field (but I'm still open to suggestions) to just two or three: The Sig Sauer GSR C3, the Kimber CDP II Compact and the Stainless Steel Compact (not sure which line) The SS may in fact be a Springer. ALL are gorgeous guns. ALL are expensive. I just started my summer vacation from school and I'm already lining up ccw classes to teach to pay for these. I have found a source for the C3 that quotes $920 + transfer fee of $30. I'm still looking for a source on the Kimber, but that baby retails for $1300! I'd like to whittle that down to around a grand so as to be competitive in price to the C3. Not sure if the other one is even available now. Also, I like light weight. Aluminum frame, in lieu of stainless steel. That fits both the C3 and the CDP II Compact.

    Finally, I already have a Sig P245 and I do like the gun, but not as much as the others. I may sell or trade this for one of the aforementioned.

    Note on the pix: The compact with the bore facing to the left is the Sig C3. The slightly prettier gun with the bore facing to the right is the Kimber CDP II Compact. The Kimber also comes with night sights while I don't think the C3 does, but I could be wrong on that. I'd also like to eventually fit whichever I get with a laser, either CT grips or the Laser Max guide rod module.

    So, can ya'll help me make an informed decision? Remember, this is all about a 1911, no other design or size and please don't urge me to just stick with my Sig P245. lol.
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    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Sigh!!!! Why don't you give up on all the rhetoric and just come on over to the Darkside with a Glock 19 or 26....
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  3. #3
    Member Array Teufelhunde's Avatar
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    I don't think you could go wrong with the Kimber. My Ultra CDP II (I know you didn't want to hear it!) has been flawless with over 1000 down the tube........

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Why could you not carry a regular commander? Have you tried it to see how it feels before spending cash? I'm 5'9" and about 160lbs and wear a 36" pant size (when I carry IWB but should have a 34" for a good fit when not carrying IWB) and carry a Bobtail Commander in all stainless. I don't know if you are saying that you have back problems or just that the size of the XD bothered you. Might try it before spending the cash.

    If you want a CCO, I'd look for a Dan Wesson CCO Bobtail or maybe see if an aluminum framed Commander would shave enough weight off to be comfortable.

    For what it's worth, I'm the first one to say that I don't like Kimber so I'd go for other options first.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  5. #5
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    While I don't have any experience with the Kimber, I do with the Sig. I had the RCS, which is the same gun as the C3 except the RCS comes with a complete dehorn job on it. I loved the gun and hated that I was forced to sell it.

    I believe the link below may be the SS you were talking about. It's the Springfield SS Loaded Champion.

    Springfield Armory

    I've thought about getting one to replace my Sig RCS.
    Last edited by archer51; June 13th, 2010 at 06:26 PM. Reason: spelling
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  6. #6
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    How about a Smith & Wesson?



    This SW1911 has the short frame, with what they term an 'extended slide' that employs a 4.25" barrel.

    It's a little different than other 1911s, it has an external extractor. There may be some other differences that I'm not aware of.

    +1 on the SA Loaded, excellent pistols.

    +100 on the Dan Wesson pistols, they're just gorgeous I don't care who you are:



    Dan Wesson CCO
    Last edited by zacii; June 13th, 2010 at 06:46 PM. Reason: added DW link
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  7. #7
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    Whew!
    FWIW I EDC a Kimber Eclipse Stainless Steel UltraII. The accuracy of the weapon is superb so far (i.e. about 1200 rnds). The FTF JHP has happened enough times for me to decide on a different carry gun (HK45 - haven't worked it all out yet).

    To relieve the need to 'tighten my pants into tourniquet ranges' I ve started wearing a pair of Perry construction/industrial suspenders, $13 or so, under my cover shirt along with the belt. I'ts been great . . the IWB just seems to 'float' there. (I'm 5'9" @ 175 lbs waist 36")
    "It is easier to resist at the beginning than at the end"____Leonardo da Vinci 1452-1519

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Combat Tupperware? I don't think so!

    Quote Originally Posted by First Sgt View Post
    Sigh!!!! Why don't you give up on all the rhetoric and just come on over to the Darkside with a Glock 19 or 26....
    Ahhhh COMBAT TUPPERWARE. Let me reveal the models I have owned and relinquished because the grips were so unsatisfactory in girth:

    Model 23, Model 27, Model 21, Model 30. I may someday get a Model 19 just for grins, but THIS thread concerns an entirely different CALIBER as in the 45 ACP or didn't you read that? If I wanted to keep a 9mm for EDC I'd just stay with my H&K P30 which is bar none the finest 9mm handgun I have ever owned and fired. But this ain't about the 9mm. It's about a 45.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Ahem

    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post


    I want to go back to a 1911 and I want a COMPACT. But the trick is I DO NOT WANT a barrel that is under four inches in length. I had a lengthy exchange with the late Jeff Cooper several years ago, prior to his passing. We traded snail mail letters over a period of months and he finally made our discussion a part of his column for Gun & Ammo magazine. We sort of agreed that the 1911 becomes inherently unreliable when the barrel length shrinks to below 4 inches. Please! Don't flame me by saying that YOUR 3 inch micro is flawless! I have owned two of those of different name brands and both were the proverbial Jam-A-Matic. I have owned a Springfield Armory micro and a Para P10. Also witness the fact that WILSON COMBAT offers a reliability package for $100 on any 1911. However they refuse to guarantee their work in writing with any sub four inch barrel of any make in a 1911. That, to me, is pretty telling.

    SO. What I'm looking for is essentially a 1911 with a "Commander's" slide on an "Officer's" frame. I'd like a mag capacity of seven rounds -- which puts it in reach of the original 1911 Government. I think I have narrowed the field (but I'm still open to suggestions) to just two or three: The Sig Sauer GSR C3, the Kimber CDP II Compact and the Stainless Steel Compact (not sure which line) The SS may in fact be a Springer. ALL are gorgeous guns. ALL are expensive. I just started my summer vacation from school and I'm already lining up ccw classes to teach to pay for these. I have found a source for the C3 that quotes $920 + transfer fee of $30. I'm still looking for a source on the Kimber, but that baby retails for $1300! I'd like to whittle that down to around a grand so as to be competitive in price to the C3. Not sure if the other one is even available now. Also, I like light weight. Aluminum frame, in lieu of stainless steel. That fits both the C3 and the CDP II Compact.


    So, can ya'll help me make an informed decision? Remember, this is all about a 1911, no other design or size and please don't urge me to just stick with my Sig P245. lol.

    In the interest of the OP, this thread ought to be about a 1911.

    Which, I might add, are more fun to look at than Glocks, etc
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array TJK68's Avatar
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    +1 on the Dan Wesson

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Okay, the DAN WESSON is looking good too. Hadn't known of that one. I like the look of it. True Officer's model frame on a Commander slide. I have a COMMANDER 45 and it's a tad too big.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    Okay, the DAN WESSON is looking good too. Hadn't known of that one. I like the look of it. True Officer's model frame on a Commander slide. I have a COMMANDER 45 and it's a tad too big.
    If your uncomfortable with it, that's ok I guess. I find a commander 1911 just the right size, unless I'm carrying my G23.

    I can appreciate the ease of carrying a small gun but I'm not comfortable with them as you mentioned before, so I stick to larger autos especially 1911. I haven't handled a CCO personally so I don't know how they balance out in the hand. Actually never saw one in person. To me, shootability of one's CCW gun is as important as being able to conceal it. Sometimes balance plays a role in the comfort too.

    I'm interested to know what you decide on ultimately, and what you think of it.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    Well, for the last 15 years, I have run Chip McCormick +1 mags in my Officer's, would that work?
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier View Post
    The slightly prettier gun with the bore facing to the right is the Kimber CDP II Compact.
    I like the shinier one. Is money a constraint?

    And dude, CONGRATS on the weight loss, no matter how you did it!!
    "Be justified. Blood may be easily wiped from the sword.
    It cannot, however, be put back from where it came." --Quicksabre

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink $$$

    Quote Originally Posted by Quicksabre View Post
    I like the shinier one. Is money a constraint?

    And dude, CONGRATS on the weight loss, no matter how you did it!!
    I'm a teacher but I have all summer to run ccw classes, so not too bad.

    Shiny isn't always good, btw. Especially at night.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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