Serious Doubts about the Glock Trigger

This is a discussion on Serious Doubts about the Glock Trigger within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Tangle Then why have so many experts had accidents with firearms? Because using firearms is an inherently dangerous activity were a slight ...

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48

Thread: Serious Doubts about the Glock Trigger

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    I don't post here anymore...Sorry
    Posts
    2,333
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Then why have so many experts had accidents with firearms?
    Because using firearms is an inherently dangerous activity were a slight lapse in attention can have terrible results.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    Senior Member Array C Bennett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,022
    Quote Originally Posted by javahawk View Post
    Big fan of the m&p series here.
    same here and you can get it with the thumb safety(if you want)

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Metro Detroit Area
    Posts
    1,716
    Quote Originally Posted by javahawk View Post
    Big fan of the m&p series here.
    +1~~ that's what I was thinking, sell the Block and get an M&P with a thumb safety.. problem solved.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  5. #34
    Member Array Night Flight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    149
    I sure don't worry about my Sigma .40 VE accidentally firing. I think they come with a NY2. LOL No problem shooting once I got used to it but still has a stiff safety/trigger pull.

  6. #35
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Because using firearms is an inherently dangerous activity were a slight lapse in attention can have terrible results.
    I couldn't agree more.

    It doesn't even have to be a lapse of attention; it could be pushing the envelope like in my case. Had it not been for a grip safety, my mishap could have resulted in anything from an unfortunate discharge to death. But because of a simple mechanical safety, nothing happened.

    Having been trained at Gunsite for 80 hours and another 40 hours at Thunder Ranch on the 1911 alone, I think it would be an understatement to say I was well trained. Still, it was not the training that saved the day, it was a simple safety.

    But, after saying all that, I carry a M&P (well, this week anyway) and wouldn't hesitate for a second to carry a Glock.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  7. #36
    Member Array DukeShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Chattanooga, TN
    Posts
    224
    I chose my Glock for safety and comfort. No hammer for comfort and trigger safety + DA only for the safety factor. PLUS if I have to use it using a Glock will look better in court I think given that LEO's carry them.

    When I was a reserve officer I carried my customized 1911's cocked and locked without a qualm.

    Anyway, a handgun is only as safe as the handgunner.

    The Duke
    "It's time to nut up or shut up" - Woody Harrelson, "Tallahassee" in "Zombieland"

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,037
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Then why have so many experts had accidents with firearms?

    Running the gun is fine; but it'll be an uphill battle to argue that the human brain is the best we can do for safety.

    How many injuries and deaths do we need to read about to understand the human brain is not a safety. It can be safe, but it can also fatigue, panic, freeze, get distracted, get confused, etc. That just doesn't sound all that safe to me.

    Again, running a gun is important, training is important, but let's face reality, how many gun owners are there and what percentage of them are sufficiently trained?

    Maybe in a perfect world training would trump technology, but in the real world we live in, thousands of people own guns and have little training. Probably thousands carry guns that are woefully trained.

    I watched some LEOs qualify; I can tell you their training, or lack of training, is not the answer, it's the problem.
    So...don't carry a gun? All guns are inherently dangerous tools. The reality of it is muscle memory plays a very important role. Practice drawing and holstering with your trigger finger indexing the slide and you'll do it every time. Practice flipping a safety off a 1911 and you'll do it every time.

    I'm having a somewhat hard time figuring out exactly what you are saying. We know guns are dangerous and all that and LEOs might not have enough training and you say (truthfully I might add) that many so called "experts" have had accidents. However, without training, practice, and more practice...nobody would ever be comfortable with their weapon enough to trust it as an extension of themselves. That is the goal of one's hard work. That when you need your firearm, using it is second nature and you do not need to really think. You've practiced enough that things are natural. If you always live your life thinking about how many bad things can happen, you wouldn't leave your house much.

    If you are advocating for safety levers such as on a 1911. There is the risk of someone with insufficient training and practice who will not wipe the safety off. Or someone with an ND who says "I thought the safety was on". It goes both ways IMO. I also think sometimes people forget that safeties can fail, you'd like them to always work but it's man made after all.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    26,728
    Many "experts" have unwanted tragedies due to lack of concern, lack of practice, feeling they are above it all, thinking of other things ... you know, basically all of the problems we and our shooting buddies have. They're little different than anyone else, other than the fact that they've had more practice than most folks.


    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Re-holstering could be a problem for those who are careless.

    I fully understand your concerns, but EACH and EVERY time I re-holster, I think about my finger, and clothing.
    Same here, too.

    I've always had DAO in my stable of guns, since Day One. So has the goal of avoiding external manual safeties. As a result, reholstering has always been the one activity that makes me a bit nervous. The "cure" (if it can be called that) is as Ret suggests: slow, deliberate, cautious reholstering, staying mindful of all the risk points. Practice, practice, practice. It doesn't eliminate the issue, given the design specs of the guns in question, but it sure helps.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #39
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    So...don't carry a gun? All guns are inherently dangerous tools.
    No one said anything about not carrying a gun. The issue is, is the human brain sufficient for those that are inadequately trained. I say they would likely benefit from some safety backup.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    ...The reality of it is muscle memory plays a very important role. Practice drawing and holstering with your trigger finger indexing the slide and you'll do it every time. Practice flipping a safety off a 1911 and you'll do it every time...
    We're not talking about that kind of person are we? I'm talking about people that won't ever get that kind or that much training - kinda like the average gun owner that buys a gun and shoots it once a year or so, if that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    ...I'm having a somewhat hard time figuring out exactly what you are saying. We know guns are dangerous and all that and LEOs might not have enough training and you say (truthfully I might add) that many so called "experts" have had accidents. However, without training, practice, and more practice...nobody would ever be comfortable with their weapon enough to trust it as an extension of themselves.
    Exactly! You are assuming that everyone will train and practice, but probably only a small minority of gun owners actually ever practice sufficiently.

    Hence precisely what I am saying, the brain is known to fail, especially under stress and even moreso for all those that don't get the training and practice they need. I hate to think the best we can do is depend on an untrained mind as the only safety feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    ...That is the goal of one's hard work. That when you need your firearm, using it is second nature and you do not need to really think. You've practiced enough that things are natural. If you always live your life thinking about how many bad things can happen, you wouldn't leave your house much.
    Maybe in a perfect world. But, again, your entire premise is based on the fallacy that most people that own, even carry guns, will have 'sufficient' training, whatever that means. But in reality, how many train to muscle memory? A minority. What about all those that train little or none, i.e. the majority of gun owners?

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    ...If you are advocating for safety levers such as on a 1911. There is the risk of someone with insufficient training and practice who will not wipe the safety off. Or someone with an ND who says "I thought the safety was on". It goes both ways IMO. I also think sometimes people forget that safeties can fail, you'd like them to always work but it's man made after all.
    What's the alternative? To rely solely on the untrained persons brain, that we already know is insufficient.

    But no, I am not advocating for thumb safeties. I believe the statement I made was that if the brain was sufficient solely as the only safety, then thumb safeties, drop safeties, etc. would not be needed, yet there they are to back up the brain if it should let us down as it so often does.

    But by the same logic, should we remove all the guards and safety features on power tools because training is enough? Or could it be those features are mandated because 'experts', much more the untrained, were having lots of accidents?
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  11. #40
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    sleeping with the fishes
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    +1~~ that's what I was thinking, sell the Block and get a 1911 with a thumb safety.. problem solved.

    rectified haha

  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    882
    Back to the OP's question......

    I used to own a Beretta PX4 Storm model C, which is a light DAO. It has about the same trigger travel as a Kahr or LCP. It was a .40, and a very soft shooter. I imagine the 9mm model must be like shooting a .22! I would recommend one of those for people who like to keep all of their guns DAO.

    The HK LEM models and Sig DAK models have similar, light DAO triggers. The trigger on the Sig P250 is a VERY nice DAO, like a custom revolver. I hear good things about the 9mm version. I did have a .40 P250 that was not the most reliable thing in the world, however. P250s come standard with night sights, which is nice.

    Nothing wrong with a good DAO design. I kinda miss my Beretta, which I sold because of money issues at the time, not because I didn't like the gun. The trigger takes more practice to master, but there is certainly something to be said about having similar operation for all of your guns. DAOs are simple, no muss no fuss. Just make sure to train yourself to let the trigger all of the way out after each shot, or you will short stroke it in a stressful situation. I must say, that is one advantage of pistols like Glocks and M&Ps....short reset and a crisper trigger break.
    Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.

  13. #42
    kpw
    kpw is offline
    VIP Member Array kpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,149
    Guns are unforgiving of brain farts and nobody ever won a gun fight because they reholstered faster than their opponent.

    Physical safeties are not a bad thing provided they are trained for as second nature. Relying on them to save your butt is never a wise decision and those that have been saved by them because of careless handling are accidents waiting to happen if they haven't learned that lesson.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  14. #43
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    ...Relying on them to save your butt is never a wise decision and those that have been saved by them because of careless handling are accidents waiting to happen if they haven't learned that lesson.
    No one as suggested we use them to save our butt, but my highly trained and practiced butt was likely saved by a mechanical safety during a draw and fire drill. I saw a guy beside me at a training school, during a draw and fire drill, sling his Beretta 92FS, butt over muzzle 15 feet in front of him.

    There are also other things besides careless handling that causes accidents. Many accidents occur from lack of familiarity of the gun (i.e. untrained and unpracticed). How many times have we heard of people removing a mag and thinking they had done everything necessary to make the gun safe? A semi with a mag safety would be safe in that condition, although I, like everyone else, would rather not have to rely on that.

    I'd like to think that everyones' brain will work 100% of the time, but something tells me it's nowhere near that good. You know when we really look at it, brain failure is the cause of most gun accidents. Some types of safeties can back the brain up a bit when the brain fails, some can't.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  15. #44
    kpw
    kpw is offline
    VIP Member Array kpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    No one as suggested we use them to save our butt, but my highly trained and practiced butt was likely saved by a mechanical safety during a draw and fire drill. I saw a guy beside me at a training school, during a draw and fire drill, sling his Beretta 92FS, butt over muzzle 15 feet in front of him.
    My comment wasn't aimed at you specifically but I'm glad you weren't shooting a BHP that day.
    As for the other guy, he would have gotten a timeout and a butt chewing at a minimum at any course I've been to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I'd like to think that everyones' brain will work 100% of the time, but something tells me it's nowhere near that good. You know when we really look at it, brain failure is the cause of most gun accidents. Some types of safeties can back the brain up a bit when the brain fails, some can't.
    Handling guns is one of those things in life that needs our full attention like carrying a pot full of boiling water. When we lose that attention we end up at the ER with a GS wound or 3rd degree burn. I'll agree that safeties can help but those that are prone to brain farts should stay away from guns and boiling water. It won't matter though. We could put a dozen safeties on every firearm and there are those that will find a way to give themselves an extra orifice.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  16. #45
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,714
    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    My comment wasn't aimed at you specifically but I'm glad you weren't shooting a BHP that day.
    Absolutely! That grip safety may have well saved my life that day.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    ...As for the other guy, he would have gotten a timeout and a butt chewing at a minimum at any course I've been to.
    He didn't get a butt chewing in any sense. The purpose of the drills were to help us see where we were and to nudge us beyond a bit. That's the purpose of training - to get better. As the student tried harder, he just didn't get a secure grip and the gun slipped during a dynamic drill.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    ...Handling guns is one of those things in life that needs our full attention like carrying a pot full of boiling water. When we lose that attention we end up at the ER with a GS wound or 3rd degree burn.
    Reality indicates that's exactly what's happening. How do we ensure that people with little to even moderate training won't have a brain drop out? We can't. There are two choices: accept things as they are and let it go on, or try to do at least some small things that help when the brain fails.

    Shoot, the same could be said for driving, using power tools, and many other activities, but we keep finding people have accidents due to human error.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    ...I'll agree that safeties can help but those that are prone to brain farts should stay away from guns...
    How do we determine who those people are and how do we prevent them from buying/owning/carrying handguns?

    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    ...It won't matter though. We could put a dozen safeties on every firearm and there are those that will find a way to give themselves an extra orifice.
    Probably true, but the idea is to reduce the risk of accidents; I think we all know it would be unrealistic to think we could eliminate accidents, either by training or safeties.

    But there have been some studies that indicate safeties just might decrease the likelihood of an accident, especially for lesser trained people.

    In one study, a number of guns were layed on a table one at a time and 'participants' were instructed to pick up the gun and fire it as quickly as they could. The ones with safeties took much longer to fire. That doesn't mean accidents would be eliminated, it just indicates that there is some deterrant there, if nothing else a safety my force the mind to refocus on the task at hand - that'd be good.

    I think we've covered the brain safety/mechanical safety points thoroughly; let's try to get back on the topic.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Doubts on caliber choice.
    By Thanis in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: August 24th, 2012, 10:06 PM
  2. Have some doubts about my carry system
    By crsuribe in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 31
    Last Post: February 14th, 2011, 08:33 PM
  3. Glock Trigger
    By ErnieNWillis in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: July 9th, 2009, 09:52 AM
  4. Glock Trigger
    By VaGlocker in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: May 10th, 2007, 10:43 PM
  5. trigger pull glock
    By primer in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: October 9th, 2006, 07:56 PM

Search tags for this page

appendix carry glock 27
,
concerned about glock trigger
,
g23 accidental discharge
,
glock ny1 trigger for appendix carry
,

glock saf-t-blok rh post '98

,

glock trigger holster

,
glock trigger safety sticking
,
glock trigger safety sticks out
,
glock trigger sticking
,
saf t blok glock
,
saf-t-blok
,
saf-t-blok for glocks
Click on a term to search for related topics.