Are my eyes playing tricks on me? - Page 4

Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

This is a discussion on Are my eyes playing tricks on me? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rollo That's stated REALLY well. I think your right, the main sticking point for me is the rail. Although I'll carry this ...

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Thread: Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

  1. #46
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    That's stated REALLY well. I think your right, the main sticking point for me is the rail. Although I'll carry this gun 80 percent of the time in a CBST I'd like to have options for OWB carry.
    Holster options aren't that limited. I know for a fact that UBG can accommodate a railed Champ. I'm sure there are plenty others that can as well.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Holster options aren't that limited. I know for a fact that UBG can accommodate a railed Champ. I'm sure there are plenty others that can as well.
    Kinda off topic but not really - Does a leather holster or kydex holster cause more finish wear on a pistol?
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  3. #48
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Kinda off topic but not really - Does a leather holster or kydex holster cause more finish wear on a pistol?
    They both wear differently. A leather holster will wear the muzzle end of the slide and dust cover in a kind of smooth appearance. A kydex holster will wear "lines" where the contact points are, it can be more like scraping a finish off rather than wear.

    Here you can see the leather holster induced wear along the muzzle and dust cover.



    I don't have any good pictures of Kydex wear.

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    They both wear differently. A leather holster will wear the muzzle end of the slide and dust cover in a kind of smooth appearance. A kydex holster will wear "lines" where the contact points are, it can be more like scraping a finish off rather than wear.

    Here you can see the leather holster induced wear along the muzzle and dust cover.



    I don't have any good pictures of Kydex wear.
    Thanks for the Pic. I am seriously considering a UBG holster by the way. I love my CBST's but kinda itching to try something new.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  5. #50
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Thanks for the Pic. I am seriously considering a UBG holster by the way. I love my CBST's but kinda itching to try something new.
    We've been very happy w/ Nate's work, especially the UBG Regulators we have.

  6. #51
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    kydex wears the finish more, and faster than leather.


    also, highnoon holsters makes nice leather one's for all railed operator models.

    springfield smartly designed the rails to be unobtrusive, unlike other brands where they protrude quite significantly.

  7. #52
    New Member Array Hillbillyjef's Avatar
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    Break in?... just about every 1911 (from cheapo Auto Ordinaces to high end customs) will need a few hundred rounds before they are "street worthy" for Defensive carry use. I like to see about 250 rounds without a failure to feed or eject... and several sets of 50 in a row without a failure before I carry a "new" 1911 on the street. If you do any formal training or shoot a couple of practical matches... 500 rounds is not a huge number. Training and playtime is also my time for reliabilty testing.

    Fit? Feel? Getting a thin/thick grip and the right beavertail safety will change the way a 1911 feels compared to the other brand or model right next to it in the display case. Some beavertail safetys need a bit of undercutting the backstrap and removal of the frame horns... and after they are all fitted up those make the gun set lower in the hand.

    Main spring housings? Some are plastic... some are metal. I have dealt with both and prefer metal. The metals used in the bulk of the gun are the weight... that little sliver of a MSH isnt enough to worry about.

    1911's.. whoever you buy from... can be kitted out to fit your taste. I've even seen a few RIA's and low end guns that have been reworked to fit personal prefernces.
    Buying a semi-custom SA or Kimber or some of the STI guns should provide you with a gun that's close to the options you want... without sinking a bunch of cash into a rebuild.

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I have a Benny Hill custom 1911 that is a meat and potatoes gun, but not cheap at all... You can clearly see the fitting and shaping that was done and made the gun fit me how I like. The trigger is great, the beavertail is perfect and it makes the slide on my Nighthawk feel like it's running on rocks... It's not a finely finished gun, but it's made to work and run hard.

    Still, my Nighthawk is my favorite and I just love them as a company.

    It took a lot of trial and error to get a gun I really, really liked. My first 1911 was a Colt given to me by Father when I was 12...though it stayed with him for a while. After that, I thought I liked each 1911 I owned, until I found the next one. It took a lot of guns until I realized which grips I liked the best, which cocking serrations were easiest to grasp without thought, which spring weights I liked, what undercut worked best, my ideal thumb and grip safety and even which bobtail and firing pin stop were best for me. But, I'm glad I owned so many or I might not appreciate the little differences as much.

    As for holsters, I like Milt Sparks, Del Fatti and Brommeland for leather and really like Raven Concealment for Kydex. The wear patterns are different, and it really depends on the finish as well. Bluing will wear nicely with either where a coated gun will not wear nearly as nice with either, but probably more with the Kydex. But hey, finish wear is a good thing. If your main gun is a year or two old with no finish wear, you're definitely not using it enough.... unless is Diamond Black, then maybe.

    If you plan on carrying a railed 1911, I'd definitely look for the thinnest holster I can find. Kydex is pretty thin and for leather, Brommeland keeps his leather from being too thick.

    Oh, as for break in, I've had a few guns that didn't NEED a break in, but running a few hundred rounds through a new gun WITHOUT cleaning, laps the rails and takes the edges off. A good 1911 will run from day one and not need a break in, though it's still ok to do and necessary with every gun you own to make sure your defensive ammo runs perfectly. An OK 1911 or one that is intentionally VERY tight will need some muck to lap the rails and get it running 100%.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Glock View Post
    springfield smartly designed the rails to be unobtrusive, unlike other brands where they protrude quite significantly.
    How much different can a rail be? The only one I've seen that's not obtrusive is the Dawson. A 1913 Picatinny rail has specific dimensions that all manufacturers use from my understanding. Are there some specs you have from Springfield that state it's thinner? Do they not extend down as far? I have an Operator and haven't noticed a difference, but then again, I've never measured it. I'd be interested to see that since my Predator will be railed...

    *Actually, the one from Nighthawk (Caspian frame) starts later and is a little less bulky that Springfield. Springfield's starts at the slidestop and at the top of the dust cover area. Nighthawk and Wilson both start after and a little lower.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  10. #55
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    How much different can a rail be? The only one I've seen that's not obtrusive is the Dawson. A 1913 Picatinny rail has specific dimensions that all manufacturers use from my understanding. Are there some specs you have from Springfield that state it's thinner? Do they not extend down as far? I have an Operator and haven't noticed a difference, but then again, I've never measured it. I'd be interested to see that since my Predator will be railed...



    VS.

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  11. #56
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I still think they're about the same, but what they do nicely is not extend the relief cuts on the slide as far back and have them meet the dust cover. The Kimber uses their standard slide cuts and standard dust cover length with the extension below it.

    If you stick any railed 1911 in a Kydex holster for a railed gun, they'd all fit about the same. The Springfield is actually thicker further back and up. The others, maybe not Kimber, don't go all the way back to the slidestop. on the Springfield, you can see the notch cut out for the slidestop to fit around the thicker area of the frame.

    So, though it's no less obtrusive, it does have a nice blended look where many others look as though they were added to a standard frame.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #57
    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    ^^it makes a difference when it comes to carry, my friend. Believe me.

  13. #58
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I STILL don't see it, but I'm trying! I took my Operator out and blew the dust off. I stuck it in my range bag and I'll compare it tomorrow to a buddy's railed Talon. It looks a good bit nicer than Kimber though. But, all rails are going to be the same width otherwise the accessories wouldn't fit on them. I can see where it would make a difference, especially over the Kimber, with the taper near the muzzle. Interesting, as it's something I probably wouldn't have noticed.

    Now I'm intrigued and really want to see what difference there is. I know there's none in the width of the rail itself, but the contour is where it's at, I'd imagine. But hey, I carried a 226 today just for the heck of it!

    After all this talk, the railed Commanders are growing on me even more. I just don't need another Commander right now or I think I'd order one.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Just kind of a side note about 1911 rails. I don't know if all rails are built to the same dimensions, but I do know that the rail on my PT1911 is not the same as any other.

    When I was holster shopping, all of the railed 1911s were categorized together, except the Taurus. Apparently it's a bit wider. I don't know how that works with accessories; I haven't used my rail, yet.

    I believe that any railed 1911 holster will fit any railed 1911, with the exception of Taurus PT1911. I say that because of all of the holsters that I researched, at the time. For that reason, I wouldn't buy the railed Taurus, again. But, I would by a railed 1911 from another manufacturer.

    If you think that the rail on the SA disturbs the lines of the pistol as compared with the Kimber, you should see the rail on the PT1911! That thing is UUgahlee
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Just kind of a side note about 1911 rails. I don't know if all rails are built to the same dimensions, but I do know that the rail on my PT1911 is not the same as any other.

    When I was holster shopping, all of the railed 1911s were categorized together, except the Taurus. Apparently it's a bit wider. I don't know how that works with accessories; I haven't used my rail, yet.

    I believe that any railed 1911 holster will fit any railed 1911, with the exception of Taurus PT1911. I say that because of all of the holsters that I researched, at the time. For that reason, I wouldn't buy the railed Taurus, again. But, I would by a railed 1911 from another manufacturer.

    If you think that the rail on the SA disturbs the lines of the pistol as compared with the Kimber, you should see the rail on the PT1911! That thing is UUgahlee
    I noticed that when I ordered my supertuck on Thursday. I figured they would all be the same but the list states "1911 w/ rail (Other then Taurus). I found it quite odd. You are however correct. That rail on the Taurus is ugly as a mud fence.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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