Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

This is a discussion on Are my eyes playing tricks on me? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So as some of you know (as it's been pretty much all I have talked about for the past 2 weeks) I am going to ...

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Thread: Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Are my eyes playing tricks on me?

    So as some of you know (as it's been pretty much all I have talked about for the past 2 weeks) I am going to be purchasing a commander size 1911 here in the next few weeks. I went to my LGS on Wednesday to put my hands on both the Kimber Pro Carry II and the Springfield Lightweight Loaded Operator.

    They both felt "good" but the Kimber felt better however I am more drawn to the SA because I think it's the better value (Guaranteed out of the box, comes with night sites, 2 mags). So, here's the thing. I am big on weight and general comfort while carrying. This is where I wonder if it's more my eyes tricking my brain or if there REALLY a difference.

    I know that the Kimber weighs about 3 OZ less then the SA however overall it just felt more light and sleek and thin. Other then the weight I'm pretty sure the dimensions are the same. I looked at the grip panels and they seemed to be the same thickness so I don't think that was it. I seriously wonder if see the blocky accessory rail on a pistol that is generally known for it's smooth sexy lines and its just making me THINK that it's is not as sleek and thin as the Kimber.

    Sorry for spamming so much about this topic lately. This is my first pistol purchase where I said "I am going to buy myself something nice and (with in reason) I'm not going to pay attention to the price. I'm going to buy it because I like it and want it." So I am trying to make the most informed decision I can. Being fairly new to 1911's doesn't help much either haha.

    Part of my concern is that I found myself leaning towards the SA BECAUSE of the value and I said I wasn't going to make this purchased based on cost. I don't care so much about the extra mag as I have quite a few mags for my Colt series 80 but the night nights did catch my attention. That's a savings of at least 100.00 right off the bat.

    Then there's the customer service. Everyone I talk to says SA's customer service is fantastic. MOST people say Kimber's is good but most people don't put them on par with SA.

    Then there's the break in period. SA guarantees their stuff out of the box where The Kimber requires a 200 round break in. Now granted I would put at least 200 rounds through any gun I was planning on carrying however if I get 3 FTE in the first 100 with the SA I can send it right back but kimber will say it's still with in the break in period. But when it comes down to it this kind of cycles back to cost. Because of the possibility of a double break in the Kimber may end up costing more but yet again I said I wasn't going to make this purchase based on cost.

    And last but not least I have to look at the finish. Both look great out of the box but there have been some reports of the finish on the Pro carry not wearing to great. Actually, I found a few threads stating that in 2-3 weeks people's Kimber's looked like they were a year old. This DOES bother me and bother me quite a bit. It's kind of a cost issue but not so much as it doesnt matter WHAT I'm buying. If I shell out good money for a higher end item it's better be quality!

    Soooooooo... I am just thoroughly confused. I guess at the end of the day what it really comes down to for me is this. Is the Kimber REALLY a lighter, thinner and sleeker pistol then the Operator or does the accessory rail just make me think that the Operator is bulkier then the Kimber. In addition does Kimbers finish just wear poorly or did they just have a batch go out with a bad finish. In the end I don't care about the night sights. I can spend 100 bucks to get some on the Kimber. If I have to spend a bit more time possibly breaking the Kimber in that's fine. I have my trusty Glock 26 I can carry while that's being done. Wow, this turned out a bit longer then I thought it was going to...
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  2. #2
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Without holding both guns, I'll venture a guess....

    You said that the Kimber felt "more light and sleek and thin," so I'll guess that weight distribution is the trick. It's sort of like the way you can have a dumbbell and a barbell side by side, both the same weight, but one will "feel" heavier.

    Not the greatest analogy, but it's probably a similar principle.
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  3. #3
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    The siginificance of 3 oz will be more or less noticeable depending on overall weight of the gun(s). E.g. if a gun weighs 40 oz (about the weight of a 'government model'), I doubt you'd notice a 3 oz difference either shooting or carrying the gun. After all just shooting a full mag of .45 ACP in a 1911 reduces the weight and hence weight distribution by about 7 oz.

    OTOH if a gun only weighs about 20 oz you might notice a 3 oz difference. But again, just shooting a gun (to slide lock) constantly adjusts the weight, balance and feel, but no one seems to notice it.

    Get the one you like; I don't think you'd be sorry with either gun. Oh, and don't mistake grip thickness as an indication of overall gun 'thinness'. All single stack 1911s are same width-wise. Grip panels may be different thicknesses giving a thinner feel to the hand.
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    JD
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    The overall dimensions are the same, yes the rail will distort the lines giving the Kimber a more sleek appearance and will weigh a little less.

    Kimber mandates a 500rd break in, not a 200 and there is talk that Springfield Customer service advises firing 200 rds before the gun is carried etc. Not so much to break it it, but to be sure it works.

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    The overall dimensions are the same, yes the rail will distort the lines giving the Kimber a more sleek appearance and will weigh a little less.

    Kimber mandates a 500rd break in, not a 200 and there is talk that Springfield Customer service advises firing 200 rds before the gun is carried etc. Not so much to break it it, but to be sure it works.
    A 500 round break in period??!!?? That's like 200 bucks worth of ammo...
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    A 500 round break in period??!!?? That's like 200 bucks worth of ammo...
    And hopefully the gun will work at the end of it...hopefully.

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    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    the kimber prob has a plastic MSH which makes a noticeable difference in weight. it's also a cheap way to go. if you like, simply change out the SA's MSH with an alloy one to lighten it up. the MSH is the heavier part in the frame.

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Yep, that just took Kimber out of the running. Springfield it is! I wanted XS night sights but I can take the novaks off the SA and put them on my Colt and then buy some XS for the SA. I wanted to replace the sites on my colt anyway.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Glock View Post
    the kimber prob has a plastic MSH which makes a noticeable difference in weight. it's also a cheap way to go. if you like, simply change out the SA's MSH with an alloy one to lighten it up. the MSH is the heavier part in the frame.
    Sorry, Kinda a 1911 internal newbie here. Whats a MSH?
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Sorry, Kinda a 1911 internal newbie here. Whats a MSH?
    Main spring housing.

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    Ex Member Array Don Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Sorry, Kinda a 1911 internal newbie here. Whats a MSH?

    i just put an ed brown chainlink one in my champion operator:


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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    How difficult is it to change out? I'm pretty mechanical but have very little 1911 experience.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Glock View Post
    i just put an ed brown chainlink one in my champion operator:

    That's purty!
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  14. #14
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    It's easy, push MSH down against a table top etc. to loosen the pin, push out the pin (at the bottom of the MSH and frame) and slide the MSH out. The new one goes in just the opposite except you have to be sure you get the hammer strut in correctly.

    I have used McCormick polymer MSH and haven't had an issue with one yet.
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  15. #15
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    How difficult is it to change out? I'm pretty mechanical but have very little 1911 experience.
    Very easy, pending on what you buy there is no/little fitting required.

    A good in between from Kimber plastic and steel is the aluminum MSH from VZGrips.

    Springfields have a locking mechanism in their main spring housings to "render the gun safe" and it makes a complete strip of the gun different than the original design, I would replace the main spring housing as I don't want that silly lock making the gun different than my others.

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