Excellent write-up, Lima.
This is a discussion on Glock 19 Gen 4 Range Report- Follow Up on Post #44 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As you know, JD bought me a Gen 4 Glock 19 with standard Glock sights. Today I had the opportunity to go to the 50-foot, ...
As you know, JD bought me a Gen 4 Glock 19 with standard Glock sights. Today I had the opportunity to go to the 50-foot, fixed distance range.
Off I went to the land of lead, copper and capacity I don't know what to do with. I didn't bother cleaning or oiling or doing anything with my Glock other than take it out of the box so it was as "new" as it could be when it had its first shots put through it.
First, I want to address a few concerns I have heard talked about with the new Gen 4.
I have heard some say that the recoil spring is too strong and can cause difficulties with racking the slide or function. While I did have three failures of the slide to lock back on empty and two failures to feed I can't say what the specific cause of these issues could be. Two of the slide lock issues and one FTF were on one magazine and so I'm thinking this could be a magazine issue or just a need for the gun to get a little more work. Five failures out of one-hundred rounds is not enough for me to want to throw the gun out the window. I had no issues racking the slide and really didn't notice that it was that much heavier. Then again, my Wilson has a heavier-than-standard recoil spring and the last time I handled a "normal" Glock was probably over two years ago so I am a little biased.
I have heard some say that the stippling around the grip of the Gen 4 Glocks is far too abrasive to be comfortable. Again, I didn't notice a difference at all. I thought the grip was rather comfortable and felt no abrasiveness to my hands upon shooting. Again, perhaps I'm just used to very abrasive G10 grips that have hardened me but if the stippling is worrying you about purchasing a Gen 4 don't let it stop you. It's really not as abrasive as some would have you believe.
So... on with the show... How did it shoot?
Well, in one word? High.
Perhaps I'm not used to Glock sights. I didn't think Glock standard sights were set up for 6 o'clock hold but maybe I'm wrong. Either way, while my vertical plane was fine (meaning I wasn't pulling to the right or pushing to the left) I was consistently shooting about an inch or two high. This was just shy of 17 yards so I wasn't too concerned about it. If it were an assailant that was closer I would be sure to hit center mass and even at that distance I was shooting high chest. Still, it would be nice to figure out what I'm doing or how to shoot it so that I hit exactly what I'm aiming at which would be that ten ring.
I was happy with the trigger. Previously I have turned away from Glocks because I had difficulty reaching the trigger. The grip made it so that I would have to reach for the trigger causing me to push or pull and I had no semblance of a solid group. Because I was able to get my finger comfortably on the trigger I was consistently grouping, just high.
Another thing I was surprised to like about the trigger is the way it felt when it moved through the firing stages. There is a clear glide as it goes through play and a pretty solid pause just before break. Having been used to a 1911 trigger of course the break is a little more spongy than I am accustomed to but not to the point where I was put off by it. There is not much over-travel and another solid snap when the trigger resets so you know you are ready to fire again. As silly as it may sound this Glock has a very "communicative" trigger.
It was as accurate as I could expect for myself though, again, I shot high. I had a few fliers (don't we all) but the accuracy was what you could expect from an out-of-practice shooter and a Glock.
I was shooting 115 gr American Eagle ball ammunition and had two failures to feed and three failures of the slide to lock back on the last round. As I said before, five failures out of one-hundred rounds fired out of a brand new gun are not enough for me to want to throw it out the window but I was surprised given the glowing reputation of Glock to be failure free.
I will clean it, I will oil it and I will take it out for another round (hopefully soon) and hope that these were just a few newborn 19 glitches or at least a magazine problem as two the of the slide lock failures and one FTF was from one magazine.
Overall Feel and Operation:
I am pleased with the Gen 4 Glock 19 feel overall. As the previous models left my small hands feeling too small, this Glock seems to fit much better in my hands. I was able to reach the controls with greater ease and operate the firearm as smoothly as I would expect from any other firearm I would shoot or carry.
The magazines dropped free with no hangups and nothing broke (hey, it's happened!).
I have to sit down and give it a good cleaning soon and hopefully I'll see those few FTF and slide lock issues magically disappear.
All in all, I'll give it a thumb's up and show some pictures....
You can see my fliers.
You can see all of the shots would fit in my hand.
I was shooting much more rapidly with this last target.
Excellent write-up, Lima.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow.
Founder of the BDA Pony Club
Lima, here's the standard analysis chart:
Since I've personally experienced several Glock FTF's and FTE's, I normally discount any reports of "I've fired 30,000 rounds from my Glock with no problems" kind of talk as just blatant lying. If you isolated this to one particular mag, though, that's something you can check out and fix. If you have a boresight laser, you can check the sights to see if they are correct. Glad to hear the gun fits you.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
I don't know about the Gen 4 sights, but my Gen 3 is set up for a 6 o'clock hold. Put the front sight at the base of the bullseye.
I've always cleaned out the factory lube from all my guns before firing them for the first time. I know Glock uses a copper-colored lube from the factory. Not sure if that was the cause of your issues...or the mag...or the ammo. I do this to rule out lube/cleanliness issues - if something goes wrong, I know I can eliminate that possibility.
My G26 has had not a hint of a burp. My G19 had one issue with WinClean ammo about 8 years ago - Glock sent me redesigned mag followers. Not a burp since, in many thousands of rounds. None.
Keep us posted - enjoy your Glock!
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all. Get a gun you will always carry, and add more capability as you grow.
Last edited by JD; July 22nd, 2010 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.
KAHR CW45, RIA 1911 Officer, S&W Sigma 9MM, Savage 1907 .32cal(BUG)
Lima, nice write-up. I would like to get my hands on a Gen 4 G19.
You might want to try changing your ammo for something with a bit more pop until the spring sets in a bit. I know others love it but I've seen more issues with AE ammo than any other factory load. Are you using the stock sights?
"In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero
Is it possible that you shot higher than normal simply because the grip angle is different? Your consistency is real good.
I always aim for the right eye...and I never miss - Goldeneye
Very nice write-up Lima.
Will you be doing a follow up with different brands of ammo as well? I've got a Gen 4 G17, and the only fmj I've ever used in it is Federal Champion 115 grain, & WWB 115 grain, both with no issues so far. Honestly though, I've only got about 700 rounds downrange with it though.
"Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA
I feel a little wierd posting this because you are Limatunes, but ... Make sure you are not riding the slide lock, I do it occasionally. Also Glocks HATE a weak wrist, I don't know if you ever limp wrist but that cause a failure very quick in a glock, much more so than other 9mm's.
What was the distance of the target? Good review. As far as 5 failures in 100 rounds, maybe it needs to be worked, but we've been shooting Glocks for many years, and have never seen that. Is it possible your grip isn't firm enough? If it continues, call Glock.
Shockwave, you're wrong about Glock shooters lying about 30000 rds and no FTFs. I've shot at least over 2000000 rds through 5 Glocks in the last 15 years, and I've had 4 FTFs/FTEs.
carguy, 50 feet. And 2,000,000 rounds? That means you shoot 133,333 rounds a year. I want your ammo budget.
As far as riding the slide stop is concerned.. I'll have to check and make sure. I was trying to be very conscious of my hand placement due to the difference in the manual of arms but it is possible I had a few slips.
Also, of course I know all about limp-wristing, I know that is not a problem.
Thanks for the review and range report. I have to admit I have not had a single FTF or FTE in my Gen 3 27 or my RTF3 19, 22 or 23 after several hundred to thousand rounds, (depending on the gun). It is reports like this and many others that kept me from considering a Gen 4 purchase. I hope you can work the "bugs" out of your new Glock.
Proud NRA member
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
Wow. Thanks for a great write-up.
That being said, with all my research on Glocks, I would have immediately returned it to Glock with that many failures.
I had a few with my Kimber, but knew their break-in policy. I read all I could on the web, and talked to the guys at the gun shop. I changed my lubrication technique, ran a few hundred rounds through her, and the Kimber now runs like a top.
However, I bough the Glock to be the near-perfect handgun it is touted to be. My wife got me the Gen 3 19, and it has run perfectly from the first shot to the most recent. No FTEs, FTFs, or slide issues. None. That's what I expected when I bought it. I was also surprised by how accurate it is at combat range. I did not shoot it at 50 feet every time, but seven yards is my average distance. Some closer, a few farther away.
I also would not run a gun through its inaugural paces without a quick field strip, clean, and lube. YMMV.