Love Hate Relationship
This is a discussion on Love Hate Relationship within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Today I underwent some training, not plinking, with an Instructor that made me see that Glocks just don't seem to work for me.
I was ...
July 22nd, 2010 09:54 PM
Love Hate Relationship
Today I underwent some training, not plinking, with an Instructor that made me see that Glocks just don't seem to work for me.
I was taking Gator Farms course at the Fort Huachuca Army Base that is free to LEO's and Active Duty Military. Being that my shooting time has been almost non-existant as of late I didn't expect to do as well as I would have liked, but I sure expected to do better than I did.
As we were taking a break one of the Instructors brought out two pistols, since my target was looking like a 12 Guage pattern and not a nice handgun group. Viki Hughbanks brought out her Walther and her S&W M&P. The Walther was better than the Glock, but when I shot the M&P I shot better than I'd been shooting all day. Not only that, but I shot a group like what I used to shoot when I was shooting all the time.
She mentioned to me that she had trouble with the Glocks as well, and that her groups resembled patterns too. I've had a love/hate relationship with Glock since the 1980's when I acquired my first one. I'll hit the target, but I sure won't be taking any head shots with one anytime soon.
The M&P went into my hand like my beloved cast frame forty caliber High Power. In short, it put a grin on my face. While I've not had the High Power long, having been a 1911 fan, it was the handgun that I decided was "right" for me. Today reaffirmed for me that the High Power is the gun for me.
The reason I decided to go back to the Glock, again, is because She Who Must Be Obeyed decided that she likes the Glock 19. Since she often elects to not carry, it made sense at the time for me to carry a Glock 19 and a 26, or so I thought. That way I could arm her, or if she had to pick up my fallen gun to use she would be familiar with it's operation.
After today's debacle I am taking the words of a friend to heart and letting my better half either carry her own gun, or just do without, while I do the "heavy lifting" with my preferred tools. Today showed me that since I favor the High Power and the 1911 that is what I should carry. I shoot both of those guns better than the Glocks, so it seems to make sense.
If I had to select a "plastic" gun the M&P would definately be on my short list. I learned today that one can't make lemonaide out of apples, and one size does not fit all in regards to guns. While I still shot over 90% it was a pathetic score in my opinion as the patterns would've been better suited to my 12 Guage and in no way resembled a group.
As soon as the M&P hit my hand I was reminded of how much like a High Power it felt. I will take that as a clue, and in fact I did. When I got home the Glocks went back in the safe, to be used as a teaching tool or loaner, and was replaced by my Practical and J-Frame. If SWMBO likes the Glock so much she can take my Glock 26 and use it as a BUG, or take parts from my 19 to keep her's up and running.
Some people can shoot Glocks just fine, but I don't appear to be one of them.
July 22nd, 2010 10:08 PM
Amazing, this very day I went to the indoor range and shot my wonderful BHP. Indoor because its too hot in Oklahoma for me to shoot outside. I would rather shoot outside. Sorry, I ramble. I consider the 1911 and my BHP to be among the best pistols made. The BHP was a joy to shoot today. Because you are often in harms way I am glad you are carrying the best pistol for you. Be safe, I really enjoy your posts.
"A gentleman will seldom, if ever, need a pistol. However, if he does, he needs it very badly!" -- Sir Winston Churchill
July 22nd, 2010 10:25 PM
Well, there is some validity to you and your wife using the same platform. If you're having an issue with the Glock's grip, it's a simple matter to have the plastic grip reduced and reshaped.
I'm not sure what your course entailed - but a score of over 90% (especially when you are out of practice) seems fairly good to me.
Combat shooting isn't target shooting - there is not much benefit to putting a bullet into a BG right on top of the previous bullet...you want to 'spread the love' over his vitals.
I respect your opinions and posts on here, so please take this as intended...I see a lot of folks on these boards blaming their hardware for what is really a software problem. I don't claim to be a great shooter, and I certainly don't get as much training time as I would like. That said, I can get some really tight groups with my LCP...yet folks endlessly complain about that gun's trigger, it's recoil, blah blah blah. I can get really tight groups with my Glocks, despite the "bad trigger" and "horrible grip angle" and the "grip that feels like a 2 x 4." I can shoot a 1911 well, and DA/SA, and...well, you get the idea.
It's all about the fundamentals...sight picture and trigger control. That's it. I do not allow the rest to bother me. I do not care for the trigger on the XD - it feels like mush to me. Yet, I can shoot an XD just fine. Sights...trigger.
Do as you wish, but I think you might be a little hard on yourself. It also could be that you shot better at the end because you had "warmed up" during the course.
Stay safe out there!
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all. Get a gun you will always carry, and add more capability as you grow.
July 22nd, 2010 10:33 PM
Hi Biker, use what you like. When I decided to join the semi-auto age I had decided on the Glock 23, when I got to the GS and held it in my little mitts, it didn't feel right. I picked up the SA XD40 SC and fell in love with it. It shoots like a dream for me and I cc it everyday.
You can educate ignorance, you can't fix stupid
Retired DE Trooper, SA XD40 SC, S&W 2" Airweight
dukalmighty & Pure Kustom Black Ops Pro "Trooper" Holsters, DE CCDW and LEOSA Permits, Vietnam Vet 68-69 Pleiku
July 22nd, 2010 10:35 PM
I had the same relationship with my .40 BHP. I liked it but didn't love it. However, a 9mm BHP is on my very short list of guns I have to get.
"In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero
July 22nd, 2010 11:51 PM
Ah.... SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed
My new one thing I learned today.
July 23rd, 2010 12:01 AM
The Baby Glocks are the only Glocks that point just like my 1911 and CZ in my hand. The midsize and fullsize Glocks always have pointed muzzle high for me.
It all boils down to what fits in your own hands. If a gun doesn't point right, or the grip feels awkward to you, then chances are you won't shoot it that well.
July 23rd, 2010 12:07 AM
It doesn't even matter if the gun feels good in your hand, it is how it shoots for you. The Glocks don't seem to work for you, others do. Handgun effectiveness is all about shot placement.
July 23rd, 2010 12:10 AM
Five years ago, when I started my 2nd career, my first boss drilled AAA into my head, and I'm a believer. Attitude, appearance and approach. Wake up, iron your shirt, polish your boots, comb your hair, and expect to have a good day. You will. Pick your clothes off the floor, and rush to work dreading it, and you're promised a bad day.
Running a gun you like, regardless of the "experts" advise has to improve your odds. BHP, M&P, 1911 or GLOCK, any will work. If one gives you a little more swagger, you're a fool not to wear it.
I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.
July 23rd, 2010 11:10 PM
A perfect example of confidence that I feel relates to firearms, is golf. I have seen my own experiences and have seen many players that have true confidence in a particular club, and just flat out tend to hit that club well. I have also seen the opposite in which there is no confidence and that person is defeated well before the club has been swung. I have said many times that I really like M&P's because of the whole package and grip angle. Now that I have a nice 1911 it totally made sense why I was drawn towards the M&P. The angle and comfort has a little bit of a 1911 characteristic. Dude, carry what you like and what you have confidence in. You can't find a better shooter then a 1911...
Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!
July 23rd, 2010 11:22 PM
My advice has always been to use what feels best for you and what you have confidence in. One of the offficers at my dept. told me he would carry his issue Glock but he would really rather carry his S&W Mod. 65. I gave him permission to carry it on duty if he could qualify with it and made arrangements for him to be supplied with dept. ammo for duty and practice. He said he took alot of kidding from other cops as he's a young guy(Iraq vet) and they couldn't believe he wanted an "old wheelgun". But his qual scores have went up dramatically and he says he feels more confident in his ability to protect himself and the citizens he's sworn to protect. He doesn't let a week go by that he doesn't thank me for letting him carry his round gun. I just smile, say "you're welcome" and say a silent thankyou to my first firearms instructor who told me "If you want to carry plastic or an old 1911 and feel comfortable and competent and condfident with it, then do it". Thanks again, John, for the good advice all those years ago!
July 23rd, 2010 11:25 PM
I love this post! That is a very cool story you have shared. Thank you!
Originally Posted by jpd202
Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!
July 24th, 2010 08:06 AM
I like Glocks and have a G30. I have no complaints about it at all. but Glock isn't the only gun on earth and I don't want a "stable" of Glocks anymore than I'd want a driveway full of Ford Rangers, F-150s, F-250s, etc. (Well, that would be nice.) I like variety. I think that if I can drive my automatic and then jump into my straight drive without problems, I can certainly go from one make pistol to another without problems. Yes, I can shoot a 1911, but I'd rather shoot a Glock.
If the M&P fits you well and "points" more naturally, I'd say put it on yout short list.
Retired USAF E-8. Official forum curmudgeon.
Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
July 24th, 2010 08:22 AM
My first gun was a G19, which I still have. I don't shoot it as much anymore since I have an M&P9C for carrying. I recently broke her out of the safe and used up 3 boxes of ammo through it. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was reminded how different it is from the M&P, and indeed from all my other pistols.
But, I think I look at this from a different POV them most. I try to be as proficient as possible with whatever firearm is in my hand, and not limit myself to any particular type. That's not to say there is anything wrong with that, but I don't want to be come a ____ person.
All that said, some days I pick up any one of my given guns and for some reason cant seem to shoot it worth a crapl.
July 24th, 2010 09:08 AM
Whatever gives you confidence is the right thing to carry. I'm really trying my best to work with semi-autos and am putting in time and effort to make them work for me. If I can carry 16 rounds of 9mm I can unload fast as I can pull the trigger, it seems like a better bet than 5 .38 spl. The math works out.
What I haven't found is a semi-auto that feels like the 686+ when I hold it. The Smith gets my entire body tingling and wired, making me feel invincible and unstoppable. It's an extension of my soul and a faithful friend. It's so accurate it's not even funny. The gun you carry should impart that feeling.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
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