Why carry a 1911 over a Glock or XD?
This is a discussion on Why carry a 1911 over a Glock or XD? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 007BondJames
You cant the 1911 on an angle. ............................ A firearm is suppose comforting not comfortable.
So in other words... a G19 ...
July 30th, 2010 11:39 AM
So in other words... a G19 or G30 is still more concealable?
Originally Posted by 007BondJames
July 30th, 2010 11:43 AM
It also depends on just how you're carrying. I know I'm hoping Oklahoma passes an open carry law. If we do, I'm getting a Kimber Eclipse Custom II. Why? Because it's a lot sexier than my M&P .40c. I'll definitely use the .40c for concealing if I need to, but if I'm open carrying I want to look good.
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July 30th, 2010 12:09 PM
July 30th, 2010 12:10 PM
Consistency has a lot to do with accuracy, and proficiency. I've been carrying a 1911 of one make or another for over 35 years. It works for me, and I'm proficient with it. I like the feel of it, the weight of it, the trigger pull, the accuracy, the caliber, and it's history. I prefer it to a Glock because I have yet to pick up a Glock that matched the comfort and/or ergonomics of any of my 1911's. I've stayed with the 4" barrel, and it conceals fine for me. I'm 6' 1", and 210 pounds. If it should print, I could care less, because in Indiana, I can legally carry open if I choose. Glock is a good gun for many folks, and that's fine. It's just not for me....and I hope that's fine too.... because that's the way it is.
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July 30th, 2010 12:37 PM
Having both and carried both, for me the 1911 carries better than any of my three Glocks. The SA trigger on my Kimber is far superior to any DOA pistol I own or have owned. I also find that my 1911 just points more naturally for me and overall just feels better in my hand and on the line. IMO, it's mainly a preference thing, but for me, the accuracy and speed of followup shots is a decent trade off for being down a few rounds. Besides, most everyone that carries a 1911 will tote additional mags in the even they need to run the thing to slide lock. YMMV
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." — Thomas Jefferson
July 30th, 2010 12:53 PM
Having put my Glock 19 back in the safe, to be used as a "loaner" or teaching tool, I've gone back to the 1911 and P35.
I shoot them better than the plastic gun, and that's what it's all about.
Last edited by BikerRN; July 30th, 2010 at 12:53 PM.
July 30th, 2010 01:09 PM
I am not sure but I think this may have been discussed previously
For me the 1911 fits me ergonomically and shooting accuracy much better, I to have no trouble concealing my full size and I am aware I give up 2 rounds to the G30.
Enjoy the rest of the show!
July 30th, 2010 01:20 PM
NO You NEED to try them both.
Originally Posted by ctsketch
AGAIN, you NEED to carry these guns for yourself and for more than 30 seconds at the local shop.. You are looking at it all wrong. The thickest point is the thickest point, but there's a WHOLE lot more to it than that. You NEED to go out and buy a few more guns and actually carry them before you state things that you're not even sure of.
Originally Posted by ctsketch
NO, that's not the case at all. Have you ever even put a full size 1911 in a holster? and I don't mean carrying your Glock around your house in your waistband, I mean a real holster and I mean outside of your home. Even if it is slightly longer, it tapers differently at the bottom. It's not blocky at the bottom, the grips curve slightly inward and if you use a Wilson 47D with a slim basepad, it actually rounds the bottom off a bit. I carried a 23 for a while and it concealed fine (so does my Sig 226 and 229 with 18 round mags), but the 1911 conceals better. The 1911 is thinner and with the rigth holster, will hug your body tighter and just ride better.
Originally Posted by ctsketch
Before you answer back about this stuff, please think about it first or run out and get a few more guns, carry them and report back in a week or two.
To the OP...
If you train with a 1911 for even the shortest time...and I mean train, not shoot at a basic indoor range... the safety becomes a part of the draw. I shoot my Sigs a lot lately and really enjoy them. I have a number of HKs, I've owned a good number of Glocks and M&Ps with a lot of carry time and many 10's of thousands of rounds through those platforms. I really do like them and will probably continue to buy other guns. But...the 1911 is the fastest gun for me to shoot accurately from the draw (I've trained with all, not just gave it a try once or twice - big difference). I can work the reset like nothing else and I get a perfect draw pretty much every time. With the Sigs or a Glock, I still get a near perfect draw, but not AS perfect as my 1911's.
My grip is very tight. I run my thumbs forward and on top of the safety. My support hand is canted forward about 45º, but locked forward, not just rested there. This locks the gun in place and you have much less muzzle flip during recoil and near perfect return to the point where I can run a full mag at 7 yards with y eyes closed and keep them all in within the 8 or 9 ring (obviously after getting a good sight picture). Again, my grip is very tight. This is where I notice something during dry fire that will affect my shooting. For example, I'll dry fire, hold the trigger to the rear and rack the slide. Now, with my sights lined up, I'll reset the trigger and dry fire again. The 1911 does not move at all. If I try this with any of my Sigs, which I do every day, it is not as easy to do the same thing and that with the thin trigger and the SRT (Short Reset Trigger). Same with the Glock. i'm not saying it goes flailing all over the place, but there's a slight shake. My 1911's don't show any shake at all.
There is currently no 45 auto on the market that I can run as fast as the 1911 accurately from the holster. Now, I can have my 1911's how ever I want. If I want my thumb safety to roll a few more degrees down on the left side, no problem. If I want my grip safety to get me even higher to the bore axis, pretty simple. If I want the return spring to be more forceful or very light, it's no issue.
I know that some people will ask themselves why would you want less bullets?? I can understand that and I like carry my 226 or 229 with 19 rounds in the gun (or 21 if I carry the Blackwater). But it doesn't make either one the better choice for everyone. When I train and in the classes I've been to, they usually teach you to shoot the BG to the ground. That can take 4 or 5 rounds. If there's 3 or 4 BG's, I could see how that's a concern. luckily, there's very few instances where you need to engage that many people....without a carbine. Once you practice proper reloads, and I do daily, you get a lot more comfortable. 9 rounds is not limiting if you know how to shoot, how to move, how to reload, etc. I have a Mark 23 and USP Tactical with 12 round mags, an HK45 with five 10 round mags, soon will pick up a 21 with a number of 13 round mags and probably an M&P in 45 soon as well. I'll still carry the 1911, even if open carry magically happens here overnight.
I'm not a basher of any decent platform, but I do know after well over 100,000 rounds in the past 5 or so years alone what works best for me during classes, competition, training and concealed carry. I love more rounds, as many as I can carry. Right now my HD gun is a 226, but my main HD gun is a SCAR and a soon-to-be 12" LMT. The 1911 trade off is worth it for me because of what I can do with the platform over the others, especially from odd positions, firing with my support hand, from a car window, while moving in different directions, etc. At the range, they all work fine. The smallest of advantages can make all the difference.
So, before you judge ANY platform, be sure to have a serious number of rounds through it, carry it if possible and run it in a class. If all you do is give it a quick 100 round spin at the range, all that tells you if you like it is that it's ready to be given a serious run. if you don;t like it (not just don't understand it's advantage, but seriously don't like it at all), then you can check that one off the list.
Or....what he said if you don't feel like reading my above ramblings!
Originally Posted by BikerRN
Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe
July 30th, 2010 01:26 PM
why do people carry cell phones, wallets, money, or carry anything? becuase people choose and have the right too.
July 30th, 2010 02:27 PM
You choose your primary gun by how it feels in your hand,(it's grip) to me as much as I have tried I can not get use to the Glock grip,it's the worst pistol in the world for me to hold! No pistol comes close to having a trigger as sweet as a 1911 everyone knows that as well as they know it has one of the best feeling grips then any gun.I like a steel full size tactical pistol that's accurate and has a low recoil with a manual safety and a SA. that's a 1911.I have been shooting this platform since the early 70's and I'm not going to change now.Just because the glock or XD can hold a few more rds doesn't make them a superior pistol to me,maybe if I was in a war zone ,but as a citizen CCW 8+a 10 rd spare mag should be good even with multiple threats as long as you know how to shoot your target,that's where being proficient with your pistol comes into play.
July 30th, 2010 03:13 PM
Watch a stock competition between Glock and 1911 shooters. The results in both speed and accuracy are so close that the difference is negligible. Almost anyone that shoots a 1911 CAN learn to shoot a Glock equally well, and vice versa.
That the trigger on a 1911 is "sweeter" is subjective, and probably not all that important in terms of hitting the target quickly. If you get a "budget" 1911, in the same price range as a Glock, the 1911's trigger probably won't be so sweet without tuning, which can be done with Glock triggers too. I have a competition Glock with a 2 pound Vanek trigger that's as smooth as room temperature butter, and just as easy to manipulate quickly as a Wilson Supergrade. Same trigger, no. Equally functional in every way, yes.
1911's profile, cant, grip angle...does that make them more concealable? I carried a 1911 for a long time, and I think there's no difference.
Ammo capacity, certainly important, but not likely to be an issue. Weight definitely makes a difference, but again, not so much to steer away from a 1911.
Safeties, well, if they malfunction, the gun won't fire, and while extremely unlikely, I've seen it happen in training. Keep in mind the Glock's internal safeties can also malfunction. Thumb safety is usually a muscle memory thing, so it' not a problem.
I work and shoot with a number of people that carry 1911s. They do it because in their opinion, it's a better looking weapon, the grip is easier to handle, they like the grip angle, and mostly they like the tradition, the steel, the million variations that make it their own. 19111s aren't just a tool for their carriers, there more a way of life.
Seems okay to me. I shoot the hell out of our Glocks, and about every day I'm looking at an STI or a Les Baer online. I have no idea why.
July 30th, 2010 03:15 PM
i carry both the 1911 and a Beretta 92FS. Both are large framed pistols. Nobody knows I carry them. Just today I went and got my hair done and was talking to the shampoo lady about some robberies that happened in town I told her thats one reason why I carry and she ask if I was carrying now I said yes. She didn't notice at all till I showed her. She was not anti gun just more concerned about safe handling of firearms. I suggested she take a NRA Firearm safety class. I also gave her a web site to go to expel firearm myths.
Hitler once said, “The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.”
July 30th, 2010 03:26 PM
Excuse the mini rant...
Why is it always the 1911? How come no one harps on the Sig 220 or 220 SAO? Those are larger heavier, single stack .45s, one of which has a thumb safety?
Why is it not the Hi Power which is larger than a G19 with less ammo and has a thumb safety?
Why is not the single stack S&W models with the safety/decocker?
Why is it not the HK P7 which smaller than a 5" 1911, but about the same weight (8oz diff) with only 9 rounds of 9mm?
How come it's not the Kahr line with their limited capacity and weight in the steel frame selections?
Did I miss the memo somewhere that excludes the above from scrutiny?
Back to the 1911, the only "fault" of the 1911 design is the capacity, yes it's less than "X". However it's still the same as other popular carry guns listed above. How come no one is bashing the G36 for it's limited capacity? Because it's slimmer than the other Glocks? That can't be because that would mean that it's OK for the 1911 to be slim?
The weight makes for nicely balanced, easy shooting firearm. I would much rather shoot a lot of rounds through my 1911s than my G21, and again why does the 1911 earn so much disdain for it's weight when there are plenty of other models out there that are equally heavy. IF the weight is an issue for some, don't carry it, it's a choice made. The weight doesn't really bother me but after a couple of days of carrying the G21 I can see the appeal of a lighter firearm.
When carrying IWB every bit of slimness helps and comparing the 1911 to a .40 or 9mm isn't exactly apples to apples, lets compare slide thickness of a Glock 21, 30, or 36 to a 1911 and tell me it's "just a bit thicker"
And when comparing grip thickness, it's not the width of the grip, but the overall shape, the 1911 is more oval shape while double stacks are more squared, those with smaller hands will have an easier time wrapping their hand around a 1911. The second picture in the the OPs first post illustrates this, there were previous photos somewhere that were a little larger, but I can't find them.
The trigger is very, very, sweet. Nothing this side of a super slick double action only can touch it. If Glock had a trigger as smooth and crisp as a 1911, I don't know what I would do.
As mentioned, everyone has different hands and the 1911 fits them all or at least it seems to me that it does. Before the Gen4 Glocks came out, Lima couldn't hardly reach the trigger on one, not the case with a 1911 and that's even with a long trigger and full thickness grip panels.
The 1911 points and shoots very easily and has a lower bore axis than an XD.
Yes the 1911 requires a little more upkeep, the previous statement regarding rust over a year of carry is laughable. People, you need to maintain your gun. Rust after a YEAR is not the guns fault. Lack of maintenance can't be blamed on anyone other than the user. Sure the Glock finish is more durable than standard bluing, that's why blued guns are not preferred for carry. THEY RUST EASILY. Of course other finishes (when properly applied) are going to be more resistant to the elements than others. Now that being said, some 1911 makers have more rust issues than others and some use better finishes than others. But that should be taken into account when purchasing one. Also the early M&P auto had some rust issues, as well did the HS2000 (pre XD).
Sure the 1911 is a little more complicated to take apart to the bare bones, but that doesn't need to be done every time the gun is cleaned and the basic field strip is not that complicated until you get into the goofy models requiring take down tools to facilitate the removal of the recoil spring assembly, but those are not found on all 1911s and should be considered when making a purchase.
That may be true of your Officers, but Defender, Micro, Ultra or other 3" 1911 would be in the same ball park and if you were to have a more accurate comparison by comparing a 3" 1911 in 9mm or .40, you'd only be short 1 cartridge. As the XDSC .40 holds 9+1 while the EMP in .40 holds 8+1.
The Officers is larger than the XDsc and 27. The XDsc and 27 offer 2 more rounds and a comparable sight radius.
What would you gain by purchasing another Glock 27 or 23 if you all ready have them? Isn't that kind of retarded? What does anyone gain when buying something that they all ready have? What would I gain by buying another toaster oven that's about the same as the one I all ready have? Unless you're just talking about a spare gun in case one is broken etc. But if you have more than one carry gun, isn't that kind of an equally ridiculous argument? I need another Glock 23 in case my original Glock 23 breaks even though I have two other guns that can fill the role of a carry gun?
What would I gain by purchasing another Kimber CDP (or comparable 1911) and packing it over the Glock 27 or 23?
I'm not saying it's wrong or bad to have multiple guns, but lets be honest about why we want them. We collect them, we enjoy shooting them, we just like guns. What we gain by buying another gun is simply having another gun. What was the answer you were looking for with that question?
July 30th, 2010 03:35 PM
Some people want what they want, regardless of explanation or reasoning. Call it a love affair (or hate, as the case may be). Just as some will only drive a Ford and wouldn't get caught dead in a Chevy hearse.
Each make has it's own advantages/disadvantages. I opted for a G30 and a few extra rounds. I can live with a "less-than-perfect" trigger. But then it seems you have to send that 1911 off to get that "perfect trigger installed (or pay megabucks for the custom job). A guy who loves a 1911 is going to do whatever it takes to make it his ideal gun. A Glock guy is going to open the box, load it, and carry on business. But that's what each of them wants.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
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July 30th, 2010 04:46 PM
I would guess because none of the guns you listed have a following (or history) like the 1911 does.
Originally Posted by JD
-It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...
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