Why carry a 1911 over a Glock or XD?

This is a discussion on Why carry a 1911 over a Glock or XD? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ctsketch i'm sorry but besides thinner, how is a 5" 1911 more comfortable and concealable? the longer, has a larger grip (hardest ...

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Thread: Why carry a 1911 over a Glock or XD?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    i'm sorry but besides thinner, how is a 5" 1911 more comfortable and concealable? the longer, has a larger grip (hardest part to conceal) and is only a hair thinner than a G19
    Cant angle helps negate grip protrusion, less girth IWB (remember when you add holster width to gun width it is significant).

    For me I like my 1911 because it's a classic design and I know my shots will be on target. I shoot it better than anything else I own and enjoy shooting it more than most pistols. I love my Glocks too, but I gravitate toward the 1911 trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    So in other words... a G19 or G30 is still more concealable?
    More concealable? Concealed is still concealed any way you slice it. Either you stick out like a sore thumb or nobody notices. It is the same for me with either my CBOB or G23, I don't print because I do something people forget to do many times. I check myself before I leave the house. I make sure nothing looks odd and the shirt (generally i wear t-shirts) is not allowing printing.


    Quote Originally Posted by carguy2244 View Post
    Watch a stock competition between Glock and 1911 shooters. The results in both speed and accuracy are so close that the difference is negligible. Almost anyone that shoots a 1911 CAN learn to shoot a Glock equally well, and vice versa.
    That the trigger on a 1911 is "sweeter" is subjective, and probably not all that important in terms of hitting the target quickly. If you get a "budget" 1911, in the same price range as a Glock, the 1911's trigger probably won't be so sweet without tuning, which can be done with Glock triggers too. I have a competition Glock with a 2 pound Vanek trigger that's as smooth as room temperature butter, and just as easy to manipulate quickly as a Wilson Supergrade. Same trigger, no. Equally functional in every way, yes.
    Well, anyone can practice with any gun and become fast and accurate. That's not in question. What is in question is the actual mechanics of the trigger system. Glocks have an arching trigger. Meaning the trigger is not pulled straight back directly to your hand. What this does is create extra motion. Read up on Tod Jerett's instruction. He explains it better than I can but I'll take a crack at it. With a 1911 the gun is designed so that your wrist is perfectly aligned with your arm when it is extended. Your trigger finger pulls the trigger straight back on this line and does not vary. With a Glock if you look at how the grip is angled you hold it slightly differently. The gun naturally points downward slightly. Of course training and indexing the slide will cause this to be a non-issue but hear me out. When you grab a Glock and line it up, the actual motions of doing so are not as natural for the human body's design. Your arm and wrist are more natural and comfortable generally speaking when they are aligned and not angled. this is why many shooters who have little practice with a Glock have harder times shooting accurately at first. They usually compensate for the grip angle by attempting to rotate their wrist so that the gun points higher and more in line with their arm such as a 1911 which when held out extended is in line with your body.
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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array TJK68's Avatar
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    LMAO

    Great post JD

    Last edited by TJK68; July 31st, 2010 at 01:20 AM.

  4. #33
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    Ditto what Rollo said, JT. Every issue of every gun mag doesn't have a BHP or P7 on the cover. There aren’t 1,000 page catalogs of Kahr aftermarket parts. There aren't "demotivational" posters out there disparaging every firearm on earth except the 1911. People don't have aneurisms if you criticize most gun designers, but if a disparaging word is ever said about the Sainted JMB, you'd better have on your kevlar Under-Roos. In short, nothing comes close to the cult of the 1911 in terms of exaggerated history/performance, blind devotion, uninformed worship, and general "mytholog-izing."

    When SO MANY people are SO VEHEMENT about the 1911 being the one and only handgun that a “real man” would carry, a few “real men” are going to take exception…
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  5. #34
    Member Array Klash545's Avatar
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    carrying a 1911 without proper practice and training can get you killed. if you're going to carry one get to know it well,commit to it,baby it and train a lot.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    carrying a 1911 without proper practice and training can get you killed. if you're going to carry one get to know it well,commit to it,baby it and train a lot.
    Yes, but I don't think you have to baby it. Think of it like a car. You take care of it but it's a mechanical device to transport you from here to there. Keep maintenance up and it will work for years. A 1911 is no different.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klash545 View Post
    carrying a 1911 without proper practice and training can get you killed. if you're going to carry one get to know it well,commit to it,baby it and train a lot.
    Well, here.... try it this way.......


    carrying a FIREARM without proper practice and training can get you killed. if you're going to carry one get to know it well,commit to it,baby it and train a lot.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcj View Post
    Well, here.... try it this way.......


    carrying a FIREARM without proper practice and training can get you killed. if you're going to carry one get to know it well,commit to it,baby it and train a lot.
    Agreed. Everyone here has heard of Glock leg syndrome.
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  9. #38
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    If you can't carry one of these, with total discretion, and in total comfort, you're just not doing it right. This is my constant companion. It's really accurate, and it never chokes. It carries much nicer than my Glock 19's. The finish is Melonite QPQ, which shows holster wear just like bluing or parkerizing, but refuses to rust. The single stack mag limits the capacity to 7+1, but also allows for a nice slim grip. The trigger is incomparable. Why would you NOT choose to carry one of these? The only plausible reason I can see is if you want a high capacity magazine. The other arguments are bunk.

    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Better trigger to start off with. However I would venture to guess a lot of people carry a 1911 because that's what they shoot the best.
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragman View Post
    because some people are more comfortable with the 1911 platform and that makes it the best gun possible for them.
    Makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Having both and carried both, for me the 1911 carries better than any of my three Glocks. The SA trigger on my Kimber is far superior to any DOA pistol I own or have owned. I also find that my 1911 just points more naturally for me and overall just feels better in my hand and on the line. IMO, it's mainly a preference thing, but for me, the accuracy and speed of followup shots is a decent trade off for being down a few rounds. Besides, most everyone that carries a 1911 will tote additional mags in the even they need to run the thing to slide lock. YMMV
    GBK
    Speed of accurate 2nd shot is someting I find desireable. I've taken a timer along with a 6'' circle plastered to a target and put the target at 6 yards (18 feet) away. I run several "double taps" and see how quickly I can keep both shots on the 6'' circle, close doesn't qualify. I take several qualifying times and average to see how quickly I can accurately place my 2nd shot. I have not used the Officers for this little "test". I have however run the Glock 23 and a 19. The 23 averaged .27 sec versus .29 for the 19, but that isn't the whole picture. The 23 had more "disqualifying" shots and it seemed harder for me to keep the sight on target. When comparing the targets the 19 was clearly more accurate for more runs ( I had about 20 "qualifying" times for each). I might have to try the Officers and see how it compares, but any performance that's not equivalent to the 19 isn't going to be knocking the 19 off my hip.

    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Excuse the mini rant...

    Why is it always the 1911? How come no one harps on the Sig 220 or 220 SAO? Those are larger heavier, single stack .45s, one of which has a thumb safety?

    Why is it not the Hi Power which is larger than a G19 with less ammo and has a thumb safety?

    Why is not the single stack S&W models with the safety/decocker?

    Why is it not the HK P7 which smaller than a 5" 1911, but about the same weight (8oz diff) with only 9 rounds of 9mm?

    How come it's not the Kahr line with their limited capacity and weight in the steel frame selections?

    Did I miss the memo somewhere that excludes the above from scrutiny?


    Back to the 1911, the only "fault" of the 1911 design is the capacity, yes it's less than "X". However it's still the same as other popular carry guns listed above. How come no one is bashing the G36 for it's limited capacity? Because it's slimmer than the other Glocks? That can't be because that would mean that it's OK for the 1911 to be slim?

    The weight:

    The weight makes for nicely balanced, easy shooting firearm. I would much rather shoot a lot of rounds through my 1911s than my G21, and again why does the 1911 earn so much disdain for it's weight when there are plenty of other models out there that are equally heavy. IF the weight is an issue for some, don't carry it, it's a choice made. The weight doesn't really bother me but after a couple of days of carrying the G21 I can see the appeal of a lighter firearm.

    Regarding thickness:

    When carrying IWB every bit of slimness helps and comparing the 1911 to a .40 or 9mm isn't exactly apples to apples, lets compare slide thickness of a Glock 21, 30, or 36 to a 1911 and tell me it's "just a bit thicker"

    And when comparing grip thickness, it's not the width of the grip, but the overall shape, the 1911 is more oval shape while double stacks are more squared, those with smaller hands will have an easier time wrapping their hand around a 1911. The second picture in the the OPs first post illustrates this, there were previous photos somewhere that were a little larger, but I can't find them.

    The Trigger:
    The trigger is very, very, sweet. Nothing this side of a super slick double action only can touch it. If Glock had a trigger as smooth and crisp as a 1911, I don't know what I would do.

    The Ergonomics:

    As mentioned, everyone has different hands and the 1911 fits them all or at least it seems to me that it does. Before the Gen4 Glocks came out, Lima couldn't hardly reach the trigger on one, not the case with a 1911 and that's even with a long trigger and full thickness grip panels.

    The 1911 points and shoots very easily and has a lower bore axis than an XD.

    What would you gain by purchasing another Glock 27 or 23 if you all ready have them? Isn't that kind of retarded? What does anyone gain when buying something that they all ready have? What would I gain by buying another toaster oven that's about the same as the one I all ready have? Unless you're just talking about a spare gun in case one is broken etc. But if you have more than one carry gun, isn't that kind of an equally ridiculous argument? I need another Glock 23 in case my original Glock 23 breaks even though I have two other guns that can fill the role of a carry gun?

    I'm not saying it's wrong or bad to have multiple guns, but lets be honest about why we want them. We collect them, we enjoy shooting them, we just like guns. What we gain by buying another gun is simply having another gun. What was the answer you were looking for with that question?
    I didn't compare to those other choices because I'm sticking to "good" guns. I don't like DA/SA, I do not like the Browning HP, nor do I like the Glock 36 and yes, I've had all of those at some time in the past. I shot a P7 but didn't buy it. I had a Kahr steel frame MK9 and MK40 but they both went bye bye because they were heavy and offered limited capacity. (I do find the lightweight PM9 useful)

    I'm not totally "retarded" (although i did buy another Glock 36 a couple of years after selling the first because I thought it might be better the 2nd time around, it wasn't) my question is why should I purchase another Kimber CDP, like the one I had before. What would the Kimber offer over my Glock 23 or 27? If i thought it would perform as well as the 19 in my 2nd shot drills I might see how it would be useful. Yea, I like "good" guns (with a strong preference for models that are 5'' or less in height for ease of concealment), and I'm in the mood to rid myself of a S&W CS9 (my wife's, but she "discovered" it didn't shoot as well for her as her Kahr P9 or my Glock 26 so I let her have the 26 in it's place) but I wouldn't want another "safe queen" and that's what a 1911 Kimber CDP would become if it failed to match the Glocks performance.
    No internal lock or magazine disconnect on my pistols!

  11. #40
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Ditto what Rollo said, JT. Every issue of every gun mag doesn't have a BHP or P7 on the cover. There aren’t 1,000 page catalogs of Kahr aftermarket parts. There aren't "demotivational" posters out there disparaging every firearm on earth except the 1911. People don't have aneurisms if you criticize most gun designers, but if a disparaging word is ever said about the Sainted JMB, you'd better have on your kevlar Under-Roos. In short, nothing comes close to the cult of the 1911 in terms of exaggerated history/performance, blind devotion, uninformed worship, and general "mytholog-izing."

    When SO MANY people are SO VEHEMENT about the 1911 being the one and only handgun that a “real man” would carry, a few “real men” are going to take exception…
    But we don't see that much here, sure we have many fans of the 1911 platform but no one's saying the 1911 is the one and only. Even OD who is probably one of the most fanatical (I mean that in a good way) doesn't run around saying that "Only real men carry 1911s", if anyone were to say that (actually meaning it, not just in jest), I'd probably ban them on general principle for being a dunce, deliberately dense, or a troll, and that goes for any brand/caliber combination out there.

    And regarding the near saintly opinion of JMB, Gaston's crowd is growing. Where's Ramrods picture of the apes circling the Glock?

    As I mentioned in one of the other 1911 threads, the Glock has almost the same devoted following as the 1911. When Lima reported that she had a couple failures with her G19 the IT MUST BE YOU! crowd came out in full force despite lots of reports about the new dual spring design being a little much for the 9mm.

    And ludicrous aftermarket gadgets? Ghost trigger kits, magwells, stainless guide rods, spring kits, grip reductions, aftermarket frames, barrels, slide releases, mag catches, grip sleeves, etc. What's missing from the 1911 catalog other than dead sexy grip panels? So much for Glock perfection as almost every Glock I've seen in competition has almost all that crap listed above slapped on it, an "improved" trigger kit would probably be found on every Glock at my local IDPA club.

    I could care less if people want to bash the 1911, one could rant up one side and down the other about how inferior it is till they're blue in the face and I'm just going to point and laugh at them. for trying to argue "Which gun is better" it's seriously comical.

    All I ask is that people make their own decisions based on actual experience, don't know if the thickness will make a difference? Try one. Want to see if the trigger is all it's hyped up to be? Try one. Want to lecture about how they carry? Carry one for a few DECADES like some of our members have.

    I'm no fanboy of any genre, make, model, or caliber, I am a fanboy of GUNS in general and try to give them all a fair shake and try as many different platforms as possible. I've got/had the XD, the Glock, the HK, the Kahr, the service revolvers, the Hi Power, the Sig, the J-frame, the pocket guns, the .380s, the 9mm, the .40 and the .45 as well as the legendary .357 magnum and for me, the 1911 just fits me best.

    When I first started looking for a carry gun, I borrowed several guns from dear old Dad, a S&W 4506 .45, a Glock 22, a Colt LW Commander, and a J-frame. I liked the 1911 the best of those choices, and that was before I knew about the history, fables, and myths. Since then I've had quite the batch of 1911s and every now and then I try something new just to see if I like it better. I tried the Sig 220 for about 3-4 months, shelved the 1911s and shot/carried nothing but the Sig, after those 3/4 months were up I took one of the 1911s to the range and still shot it better and liked the way it carried compared to the 220. Right now I'm sipping the Glock water and getting acquainted with my G21SF till my Nighthawk is done, I'll continue to carry the Glock and shoot it at the local matches and see how I like it, but as of right now the only things it offers are 5 more rounds in the mag (50+% more) and it's lighter. The capacity of the 1911 doesn't bother me here given the crime stats for Iowa, if I were back home in Detroit or an area with higher gang activity, I'd probably favor the G21 or the XDM-9 with it's almost never ending magazine. And the weight isn't really a factor unless I start walking the 24 miles to work and back or on lengthy shopping trips with Lima and Speedloader where I am carrying more gear than I did in Iraq.

    I guess the thing that gets me is that people are so stuck on themselves and can't see past their own noses to really GET the fact that just because they like "X" and not "Y" doesn't mean that "X" works better then "Y" for others and then have to start a thread on it when all this has been posted I don't know how many times, on I don't know how many forums over the years and the answers haven't changed and probably never will. Why can't they just take 30 minutes of personal reflection on "How does "X" compare to "Y" and why might that be good or bad?" I mean seriously is it that hard to figure out?

    Then again, most people in this crowd can't figure out how to drop a deuce while carrying without starting a thread asking how to do it or want to argue about killer zombie dogs from mars and would would be best to dispatch them.

  12. #41
    Member Array Goldy49's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    You hear people talk about a gun that naturally fits there hand. Well for me, that gun is the 5" 1911. I don't know why, but it just does.
    I agree with the quote. I hear a lot of people rave about Glocks, but they don't feel good to me at all and, worse, they don't point at all for me. The 1911 just fits my hand so much better. I have yet to pick up a 1911 that doesn't feel good in my hand. I tend to favor 4" models.

  13. #42
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
    I'm not totally "retarded" (although i did buy another Glock 36 a couple of years after selling the first because I thought it might be better the 2nd time around, it wasn't) my question is why should I purchase another Kimber CDP, like the one I had before. What would the Kimber offer over my Glock 23 or 27? If i thought it would perform as well as the 19 in my 2nd shot drills I might see how it would be useful. Yea, I like "good" guns (with a strong preference for models that are 5'' or less in height for ease of concealment), and I'm in the mood to rid myself of a S&W CS9 (my wife's, but she "discovered" it didn't shoot as well for her as her Kahr P9 or my Glock 26 so I let her have the 26 in it's place) but I wouldn't want another "safe queen" and that's what a 1911 Kimber CDP would become if it failed to match the Glocks performance.
    Did you really need to start a thread to figure this out?
    My question is why should I purchase another Kimber CDP, like the one I had before
    If i thought it would perform as well as the 19 in my 2nd shot drills I might see how it would be useful
    but I wouldn't want another "safe queen" and that's what a 1911 Kimber CDP would become if it failed to match the Glocks performance.
    It all ready sounds like you know how this will pan out:

    You all ready had one and got rid of it, you don't think it will out perform your Glock(s), and you don't want a safe queen...

    ...so don't buy one.

    If you're genuinely curious, go to a range with your shot timer, bring a friend with a 1911 like you want, or find a place that rents them and test your theories, just don't let a bunch of strangers tell you what's best for you, go find out for yourself.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    All I ask is that people make their own decisions based on actual experience, don't know if the thickness will make a difference? Try one. Want to see if the trigger is all it's hyped up to be? Try one. Want to lecture about how they carry? Carry one for a few DECADES like some of our members have.
    This is what I keep saying over and over. There's guys in this thread that have never owned a 1911 and barely ever shot one and are making comments about how it conceals and why one gun is better than it.....or worse than it....but on what intimate knowledge? That is ridiculous. Unless I've owned the gun in question, I never make comments about it. Personally, I'm in to owning every gun I like, not choosing one over another because personally, I'll find a use for every gun I own and if not, it gets sold..

    If I was smart, I'd be bad-mouthing 1911's to everyone that listens and talking up the HK's!
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  15. #44
    ntg
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    You could pack every one of...never mind the smart remark.
    In all seriousness I think everyone should own a 1911, and I look forward to the day that I do. Just like I think everyone should own a 30-06, a .357 and...well I won't bore you with the list, but it's an American thing to do IMO.

    I know the trigger on my friend's TRP was unreal sweet!
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