Kahr PM9 Ammo Feed Issue - Page 5

Kahr PM9 Ammo Feed Issue

This is a discussion on Kahr PM9 Ammo Feed Issue within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Philo Betto Either you're misusing the term "loaded gun" or I don't understand the term. To me, loaded means there are rounds ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philo Betto View Post
    Either you're misusing the term "loaded gun" or I don't understand the term. To me, loaded means there are rounds in the gun, not necessarily in the chamber. Here are a few articles I found on what constitutes loaded (not culled, they're the first 2 that were Googled):
    - You're correct. I should have stated that I was talking about gun with a round in the chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philo Betto View Post
    Now, after having made that impassioned plea for no round in the chamber, I will probably elect to carry my Sig P239 with a round in the chamber. I feel like my Sig gives me some added safety margins that my PM9 does not:
    1. It's a higher quality gun than my PM9 and probably less likely to do something it's not supposed to.
    2. It's a larger gun and thus more deftly controlled than a smaller gun.
    3. The decocked hammer is an added measure, and yet cocking the hammer is faster than racking the slide.
    4. In addition, it has the same "drop safe" features as my PM9.
    5. It will be carried OWB whereas my PM9 is carried IWB, meaning that I don't have to go fishing in my pants for the Sig.
    - This was one of the points I brought up earlier. The PM9 is not a gun I would carry without a round in the chamber, mainly because it is advised to chamber the first round with a slide stop. There are other guns with more safeties (grip safety, manual safety, etc.).


  2. #62
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    The biggest component of effective self-defense is mindset....and anyone who carries a weapon in a state of non-readiness ain't got it.
    Well said.

    I had a discussion with someone about carrying with an empty chamber. It wasn't until some events happened that he realized that what I had been saying was right, "In a real SHTF scenario you most likely won't have time to chamber a round, and most probably will not have the extra hand needed to chamber a round."

    Biker

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Ahem...has Kahr fixed the gun yet?
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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  4. #64
    Ex Member Array Philo Betto's Avatar
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    Yeah, we've all seen the DEA agent who was the "only one professional enough." He's just as big a dunce as someone who carries without a round in the chamber.
    I'm going to reply, then I'm going to make you the first member on my Ignore list. I prefer to discuss various gun issues with adults.

    People who ARE trained, and ARE skilled carry with one in the chamber. Period.
    Wrong. Perdiod. See how easy it is to disguise opinion as fact?

    That is the way that safe, modern firearms are meant to be carried. If you don't trust yourself enough to keep your booger hook off of the bang switch until you need it, I suggest you take up a tamer pursuit than providing for your own defense. Maybe golf? Perhaps the state should ask you why they should issue a CHL to someone who doesn't even trust himself to safely handle a firearm. THAT seems like common sense to me.
    LOL What're you, 15?

    The biggest component of effective self-defense is mindset....and anyone who carries a weapon in a state of non-readiness ain't got it.
    I'll be darned, those 8 years of teaching Ni Gojuryu to 100s of students and LEOs didn't learn me a durn thang. I'm so fortunate that someone from Indiana came along to set me straight.

    Now, run along; you're beginning to bug me.

  5. #65
    Ex Member Array Philo Betto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Ahem...has Kahr fixed the gun yet?
    Nope. But I've done enough internet research to find that the problem I've had, lots of people have had. It is not an isolated issue. When it comes back it may be perfect, I dunno, but we don't trust each other anymore. It's kinda like the day I got caught in thermals in an ultralight with a very low wing-loading. The ailerons wouldn't keep up and it scared the bejeebers out of me. I put her in the hanger and installed a boxed wingtip kit to speed up the ailerons and she flew fine after that, but we never trusted each other after we nearly made a smokin hole in a cotton field, so I sold her. Prolly will do the same when the PM9 gets back from Kahr.

    But that does bring up a good point. The issues I had with my PM9 weighed heavily on my decision that I could not trust it enough to keep a round in the chamber. My Sig is fairly "bulletproof" and I'll seriously consider that option with my Sig.

    In the end, I suppose it's a matter of priorities, at least with me. I would rather place myself at a very slight increased risk of not having a round in the chamber, than to very slightly increase the risk that I'd hurt someone because of an accidental discharge.

    I do find it an interesting study in the psychology of people that have such confidence in themselves that they think they're immune to making a mistake.

    And to take the debate in another direction, is carrying a .32 pistol with a round chambered safer than carrying a .45 with no round chambered? With which would you feel the most prepared?
    Last edited by Philo Betto; August 15th, 2010 at 06:07 PM.

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I'm not going to get into the loaded chamber or not debate!

    As far as the PM9 goes, I can certainly sympathize with you. I went back to the Kahr well three times, and got burned each and every time. Talk about feeling like a jilted lover!

    I'm no longer interested in anything they're selling.

    Good luck to you - and for Lord's sake, fly safely!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  7. #67
    Senior Member Array Vaquero 45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Philo Betto View Post
    I'm going to reply, then I'm going to make you the first member on my Ignore list. I prefer to discuss various gun issues with adults.
    Fine with me. After 22+ years in corrections and law enforcement, you'd think I'd know better than to try and have a conversation with someone who carries an empty gun around. Thanks for setting me straight. No skin off my nose if some guy with TWO empty chambers (guess where the second one is) gets popped by a bad guy because he doesn't trust himself with a loaded gun.

    Darwin at work.

    I guess the thousands of armed professionals who carry with one in the chamber every day are doing it wrong.

    15 years old indeed.
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  8. #68
    Senior Member Array Rotorflyr's Avatar
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    Just My Opinion But...

    Anyone who isn't comfortable carrying a defensive weapon with one in the chamber needs to either A) Figure out what makes them uncomfortable about it and then work on getting past it

    Or

    B) Do what a lot of the ol' cowboys did and carry a revolver with the hammer over an empty chamber
    When Guns Are Outlawed, Only Outlaws will have guns

    Just remember, When seconds count help is mere minutes away

    Also remember, When you go to trial by jury you are putting yourself into the hands of 12 people who weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Array mr surveyor's Avatar
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    This has been a somewhat confusing thread. The only actual question I saw in the original post was "I guess that begs the question: Do you feel safe carrying with a round chambered?". Now, after 4 pages of of mainly responses to the original "question", responses are no longer acceptable. If the original intent was to discuss, or vent about issues with the handgun, why ask the question if the answers aren't wanted?

    surv

  10. #70
    Ex Member Array Philo Betto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr surveyor View Post
    This has been a somewhat confusing thread. The only actual question I saw in the original post was "I guess that begs the question: Do you feel safe carrying with a round chambered?". Now, after 4 pages of of mainly responses to the original "question", responses are no longer acceptable. If the original intent was to discuss, or vent about issues with the handgun, why ask the question if the answers aren't wanted?
    surv
    Simply, the situation evolved from when the question was asked. Initially, the PM9 was just FTF once in awhile on the 2nd round. The next day it began FTF on the first round, all the time. The question naturally evolved from trying to work around the known idiosyncrasies of the gun, to the usefulness of the gun altogether. Human nature being what it is, some PM9 owners got their feathers ruffled when someone suggested the gun has issues and several others chimed in to confirm that, so they attacked me as being incompetant to carry a gun because I was too dense to know to carry a round in the chamber.

    The knocks didn't go very far because those who said it's foolish to not keep a round in the chamber, were offset by experienced gun owners who said it's a valid position. When highly experienced, well-known gun experts say there are good reasons to not keep a round chambered in some situations, it pretty much nullifies the opinion of those who say you might as well not have a gun at all if you don't keep a round chambered. Really though, the latter was an illogical comment and didn't need any experts to refute it.

  11. #71
    New Member Array EvilJ's Avatar
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    none of you address the issue

    my kahr PM9 will not accept american eagle 115g ball ammo. It will not feed. don't tell me to read the instructions, or slide lock the rack, both of which are ridiculous suggestions. It's a total cop-out by Kahr to tell you that you have to feed the ammo that way. The ammo itself jams in the seat of the breach. I've never had this with ANY of the hundreds of guns i've handled or owned. The question is about the ammo, isn't it? Has anyone else had this problem? Oh, i know, maybe i should go out and buy an aftermarket magazine. Spear gold dot +p? no problem. I have pictures of the american eagle round where you can clearly see where the seat scars a ring around the ball. so, i must not be doing it right.

  12. #72
    Member Array ansehnlich1's Avatar
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    resurrected from the dead, thread.

    I'll give ya $100 for it, shipped.

  13. #73
    Senior Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    115G 9MM is an issue for many guns,try switching to 124....

  14. #74
    Member Array Sarge65's Avatar
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    Was considering purchasing a Kahr recently and am now happy that I didn't. Chamber empty or full makes no difference. However, if the weapon fails to feed on the first, second or 1000th round, it is not for me. Like others have stated, I want the round to feed and the weapon in battery and ready to fire when I want/need it to. FTF is more dangerous IMHO. Thanks for the interesting debate.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array bklynboy's Avatar
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    I have a PM9 and love it. I'm lucky, mine eats everything I feed (both FMJ and HP) it and has not had a misfeed since it was under 100 rounds (now well over 1,500). Yet, I personally know people who have had issues with them and way more people on forums have had issues with them than should be the case for any pistol marketed for self defense. While I have no plans to get rid of mine, if I had to do it again I would consider something else. There are any number of good, small single stack 9mm autos out there now that did not exist when I bought my PM 9 three years ago.

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