Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record

Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record

This is a discussion on Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; From the article: ""He had chest and abdomen shots," Carney said. "It's a miracle. They missed the heart and major arteries." DiMaio predicted that Alvarez ...

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Thread: Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record

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    Member Array bsms's Avatar
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    Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record

    From the article: ""He had chest and abdomen shots," Carney said. "It's a miracle. They missed the heart and major arteries."

    DiMaio predicted that Alvarez would survive since the bullets missed vital organs and didn't cause excessive bleeding."

    I gather the NYPD issues the 124-grain +P Gold Dot hollow-point 9mm cartridge by CCI Speer...pulled that off the web, so it could well be wrong

    Placement isn't everything, but it sure is high on the list!

    Full article here:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c..._21_shots.html


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    Here is a couple paragraphs from an updated article.

    It seems this guy and another guy were fighting, the cops showed up, the one guy apparently had a gun stuffed in his waistband. The guy who was shot 21 times saw it and began trying to get it away from the other guy, cops began shooting at both of them, striking him 21 times, nonfatally, but hitting the other guy who had the gun on him six times, killing him.

    Boy, when its not your time to go, its not your time to go!!!



    Quote;, and link,,,, The bullet that killed a 22-year-old Bronx man in a wild Harlem melee Sunday was fired by a police weapon - not the man he was brawling with, officials said Monday.

    Luis Soto, who was shot six times in the 3 a.m. Lenox Ave. pandemonium, died after one fatal bullet ripped through his heart, lung, kidney and a key artery, the medical examiner said.

    Police said that bullet, which was recovered from Soto's body, had polygonal markings on it consistent with a police-issued semi-automatic handgun.

    The only civilian weapon at the scene, a .38 caliber revolver, had different bullets.



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz0wAGVzvz9
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    It seems to me that the real story is that "cops fired a total of 46 bullets and hit at least six people, including a fellow officer and three random bystanders." (quote from the linked article)

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    I was just listening to the Pro Arms podcast and they had an interview with an officer who was in a gunfight... attacker sustained 15 shots, had massive internal organ damage, and still managed to survive 10 days after the shooting... paraphrasing the words of the Officer being interviewed "he had a will to live".
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post

    Boy, when its not your time to go, its not your time to go!!!



    Luis Soto, who was shot six times in the 3 a.m. Lenox Ave. pandemonium, died after one fatal bullet ripped through his heart, lung, kidney and a key artery, the medical examiner said.




    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz0wAGVzvz9
    Was it one bullet that did all that damage? I couldn't tell from the article.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Realfriend View Post
    It seems to me that the real story is that "cops fired a total of 46 bullets and hit at least six people, including a fellow officer and three random bystanders." (quote from the linked article)
    Agreed.
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    That sounds totally crazy, the LEOs fired 46 bullets, hit at least six people including an officer and three random bystanders
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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    Ugh! Sounds like some major re-training is in order.

    I wonder if lasers (this was at 3am) would have helped keep shots on target better? Sounds like the bystanders were hit by misses, not through-and-throughs.

    So, if you are struggling with an attacker over control of his gun, the police are just going to shoot both of you?! Where's that "Tactical facepalm" picture?!

    I know first hand how confusing real-world scenarios can be, but this sounds like a major charlie foxtrot. I hope this guy lives - he's going to be a rich man, courtesy of the taxpayer.

    EDIT - Never mind...seems to be a case of bad guys doing bad things...both had records - from news article:

    "Both had records. Alvarez had two prior arrests, including one for gun possession and trying to run down a cop with a car, for which he served two years. Soto had been arrested eight times, including for burglary."



    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz0wGE34IFW
    Last edited by 10thmtn; August 10th, 2010 at 10:33 PM.
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    First of all, the attacked has a gun, the other guy tries to struggle with him and the cops just unload on both of them?!?!?!

    and, one cop and 3 bystanders hit? I expect to see some suspensions and re training here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    First of all, the attacked has a gun, the other guy tries to struggle with him and the cops just unload on both of them?!?!?!

    and, one cop and 3 bystanders hit? I expect to see some suspensions and re training here!
    It's NYC.

    Mayor Bloomberg will be on TV denouncing all of this as the result of the .38 being there. He'll demand stricter gun control so the police won't be "forced" to shoot bystanders and one another.

    It's all the gun's fault, you know....
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    First of all, the attacked has a gun, the other guy tries to struggle with him and the cops just unload on both of them?!?!?!

    and, one cop and 3 bystanders hit? I expect to see some suspensions and re training here!
    Nah! Dis iz nu yak, fagetaboutit!

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    Man, what a mess. I have more than a few years of experience as a soldier and a badge, and I have a preconceived notion how I may react. Still, unless it actually happens, it’s hard to say how the adrenalin will affect any of us. Generally speaking, as private citizens we’re on the defense, whereas the perpetrator is in the offense with premeditation. As such, our responses may be totally reactionary with little forethought.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    It's NYC.

    Mayor Bloomberg will be on TV denouncing all of this as the result of the .38 being there. He'll demand stricter gun control so the police won't be "forced" to shoot bystanders and one another.

    It's all the gun's fault, you know....
    Nah! Dis iz nu yak, fagetaboutit!
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    Well, being one of the largest police forces in the entire country, the NYPD isn't really able to give thorough weapons training to it's street cops. Plus, alot of those cops rarely practice with their duty weapon anyways. I'm just glad there was even a weapon present at the scene. The NYPD has a long list of shootings were they've blown guys away who were just going for their wallet to show id, or had nothig in their hands at all...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattInFla View Post
    It's NYC.

    Mayor Bloomberg will be on TV denouncing all of this as the result of the .38 being there. He'll demand stricter gun control so the police won't be "forced" to shoot bystanders and one another.

    It's all the gun's fault, you know....
    Regardless of what I think about the gun control or not, I wonder if that guy is taking strong medicines or what. I cannot imagine how a normal person can say what he says.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

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