This is a discussion on Kahr Propoganda within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; With any manufacturer of firearms there will always be a few lemons out there and a few people who bad mouth various guns. I had ...
With any manufacturer of firearms there will always be a few lemons out there and a few people who bad mouth various guns. I had a Kahr P40 and absolutely could not believe how accurately it shot compared to the "overrated" Glock and you can't touch it on it's slimness for concealed carry. The only negative thing I could say is you pretty much have to use Kahr Brand magazines for reliability and they are crazy money if you wan't to buy more than the one that comes with the gun. The other great thing is though they were designed by a Korean they are made right here in the good ole USA.
If you can read this thank a teacher. If it is written in English thank a Marine.
I have the K40 and the K9 and both have served me well. They are indeed fine guns with CS that is right up there with the best of them.
Certified Firearms Instructor
All companies advertise. And they're going to advertise what good they can about the products they sell. Of course, there's advertisement to reverse the natural course of what would otherwise be seen as a marginal product; there's boosting sales of quality product with targeted info spots; and then there's the word-of-mouth type method, putting your money where your mouth is and then letting the market do what it'll do.
Take Heckler & Koch for example. They've sought to make the best-engineered, most reliable products they are capable of making. So highly reliable and durable that military organizations around the world seek out H&K for the quality they know they'll be purchasing. While even H&K doesn't publish their everyday statistics on the MTBF of their firearms, they have published the numbers related to the MK23 tests performed by the U.S. SpecOPS Command in the early 1990's:
During testing, MK 23 pistols met the most stringent operational and accuracy requirements ever demanded of a combat handgun. Endurance testing demonstrated a service life of over 30,000 rounds of +P ammunition. To meet the reliability requirement, the pistol had to demonstrate a minimum of 2,000 mean rounds between stoppages (MRBS) with both M1911 ball and +P ammunition. All pistols exceeded the 2000 MRBS with an average of 6000 MRBS.
Propaganda, yes. But there's propaganda ... and there's propaganda.Its not propoganda......its all true, Kahrs are outstanding handguns.
I've owned three Kahr pistols, including a PM9, P380 and CW9. None of them have been reliable out of the box, nor after a break-in period many times greater than Kahr's recommendation. The PM9 wouldn't behave until being massaged by Kahr. The P380 still isn't up to snuff, though I'm still trying to wring it out. And while the CW9 is far better than it was, the extreme reliability reported by many folks simply hasn't occurred yet with this one. I like the simplicity and basic operation of these pistols. They seem well-engineered and stout, for the purpose. But in my experience, three out of three, the reliability of the Kahrs I've used simply haven't been the equal of that of other firms who have earned "legendary" reliability.
Glock, SIG, Heckler & Koch, Colt, a few others. These are known for their reliability. They've built their reputations on it. One could argue these pistols aren't in the same class as the Kahrs, which are typically aimed at a different segment of the marketplace. (In the same sense of auto manufacturers claiming a given car has the most power or best reliability "of any car in its class.") Still, there's having legendary reliability, and there's wanting to have legendary reliability. Kahr is on the way up, though IMO it hasn't reached quite the same level of reliability inherent in the designs of the other few I've mentioned.
This post isn't to be contrary or to toss gas on a brush fire. It's only to present a counterpoint with actual experiences on the other side of the reliability fence.
I hope Kahr gets there. The way certain Kahr pistols perform for many people, I think they're well on their way. Good for them, 'cause the mini Kahrs are some of the nicest packages made. If only I could get a PM9 and P380 to work properly. That would be something.
I have a K9 Elite. The workmanship is excellent, even the feed ramp was polished. Functions flawlessly.
"First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
Edge of Darkness
I respect your opinions CCW9mm and you made some points I guess, but I own at least one of all the handgun makes you named as examples of high end guns…..Glock, SIG, Heckler & Koch, and Colt. And based on this I think Kahr handguns are every bit as good if not better in build/material quality and in reliability. Karhr's are top tier handgun if people think the ones you named are top tier without question IMO. And this is from my own personal and extensive experience and literally thousands of rounds run through these guns. This is not directed at you CCW9mm but a lot of people on here and most other forums talk a lot but few really speak from true personal experience it seams. They make comments and try to give advice on subjects they really don't have personal knowledge of and often just repeat back crap they hear or read somewhere. Your points are well taken but for every Kahr that has issues there are likely 50 times that number that don't. This is not a scientific point but just going by the post I read and accounts I hear. So who to believe. Someone looking to purchase a certain gun has to wade through the waters and make up your their own mind from the sources they choice to believe I guess. And thats as it should be....due dilagence and research is the foundation of a well thoughtout firearms purchase.
When I leave the home port:
S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP
We can all agree that all mechanical, man-made devices have issues. They always will. And given the realities of statistical probability, any given product is going to have its share of units made better and worse than the average, for any number of reasons. And that'll result in streaks of instances of excellence, as well as sub-par quality. It's just the nature of the modern work week, maintenance schedules of machinery, the fact that friction-impacted materials wear over time, etc. Ain't no way around that.
Reality is, those who have such units that exceed or fail to exceed expectations are just that: examples of performance that matter and should not be dissed for what they are. But they're no more than that, just examples. Not one of which tells the whole story, and (really) not one of which comes down to opinion (in terms of whether it has reliability issues or not). It is what it is. Opinion only comes in when it attempts to suggest that it matters any more than that. And that's something I try to avoid.
I carry a PM9 with Meprolight night sights, had a couple of FTF/FTE in the first 200 or so rounds, most were either my wrist or the Wolf ammo......since then over 500 rounds with no issues. My only complaint is the mags, gotta be careful how you carry them as sometimes the top round or two can pop out.
S&W M&P 9c
Ruger LCR + P (.38)
Taurus M851 (.38)
my cw40 has been reliable for me my lgs guys. (local gun shop)
told me to give it a 400 round break in period which im 200 rounds
in to with only one stovepipe due to user error. but other then that
ive had no problems with mine. i would have no problem reccomending
them to people.
Actually, the term "propaganda" means ideas that are put forth to further a cause or agenda, and doesn't mean that those ideas are untrue. Propaganda can be based on fact, and the fact is, I love my CW9, and have had zero problems with it. It's a great carry gun for me, and I love to shoot it, too.
" In theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not."
GLOCK G23, KAHR CW9, RUGER LCP, TAURUS PT92, TAURUS 689, MOSSY 500
I have a PM9 and it is my first Kahr. It has been flawless even through the breaking period. I purchased it with night sights and have since added a CT laser trigger guard. I have about 750 rounds through it and its now my every day carry pistol.