Help me select my first Carry Gun:) Pics please:) - Page 3

Help me select my first Carry Gun:) Pics please:)

This is a discussion on Help me select my first Carry Gun:) Pics please:) within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll second the recommendation for the Dan Wesson V-Bob jonconsiglio- I thought I was the only one who wears True Religion jeans on this forum...

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    I'll second the recommendation for the Dan Wesson V-Bob

    jonconsiglio- I thought I was the only one who wears True Religion jeans on this forum
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S


  2. #32
    Member Array Mr7point62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    The 1911 is one of the safest guns on the market and PROBABLY safer in the hands of a "noob" that a Glock.


    Gosh... I had no idea that 1911's were safer in the hands of "noobs" than Glocks. I wonder if anyone bothered to tell that to the hundereds of thousands of LEO agencies that switched from revolvers to Glocks? Why wouldn't they have selected the 1911 as their primary duty weapon instead of the Glock if your comment was true?

    (Gasp) Think of all of the LEO's around the country that are AT RISK carrying Glocks, when according to you, they would have a safer and easier to learn weapon had their departments issued them 1911's!

    ...hmmmm...something doesn't pass the smell test here. The truth of the matter is that the easiest weapon on the market to transisiton revolver-shooters to semi-automatics is the Glock. NOT the 1911.

    I can only imagine a rookie cop on patrol carrying a 1911 cocked and locked while responding to a domestic disturbance... sort of brings the image of a lawsuit to your mind, doesn't it? Yet you claim it is safer in the hands of a noob than a Glock? I don't recall any Glock with a trigger pull of 2 pounds....or less.

    I dont dispute that some of you love your 1911's. God Bless you all! But the facts are crystal clear that it is NOT a weapon easily mastered by newbies, and in fact is generally only issued in LEO circles to the most advanced professionals, and generally SWAT or HRT members. That seems to splash a little water on your recommendation of the 1911 for newbies... at least it would to anyone with common sense and a knowledge of firearms.
    Ok I guess I need to update a post with some info about me... I am not a "noob" when it comes to guns. I have been shooting guns since I was 10 years old. Starting with shotguns, and working up to pistols around the age of 15.

    I served 4 years as a US Marine and Pistol qualified once a year. I also have owned a few full size pistols. However I never carried concealed which is what this post was about. Most of the pistols I have shot were all full size, and at the time I never thought about concealing any of them.

    Now onto the LEO carrying Glocks. Its all about the money baby. Most departments carry them because of ease of use (pull and shoot), most departments order them because they have a contract through Glock and get a good deal on ordering them.
    Glock got a big jump ahead when the whole torture test thing happened. Of course Glocks are awesome machines and work very well under the conditions that alot of them see in the Law Enforcement side.

    However,
    In my area the only LEO's that still carry Glocks are the new cops who are issued one, and the ones who have to carry them(due to their department). On the other hand, the Three County's around me, most of the sheriffs carry a 1911 style pistol.

    Onto easy mastering of a newbie. The response is harsh, for example I believe that anyone who buys a pistol and doesnt train on it before carrying it; is a IDIOT, plain and simple. If I buy a 1911, I will read all the info I can and practice for at least a month on it before I begin to carry it for everyday defense.

    Also with how much I shoot Rifles and Shotguns, I already have the mindset of safety off, then shoot, so a transition to a 1911 probably wont effect me as much as someone else...

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array TJK68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    The 1911 is one of the safest guns on the market and PROBABLY safer in the hands of a "noob" that a Glock.


    Gosh... I had no idea that 1911's were safer in the hands of "noobs" than Glocks. I wonder if anyone bothered to tell that to the hundereds of thousands of LEO agencies that switched from revolvers to Glocks? Why wouldn't they have selected the 1911 as their primary duty weapon instead of the Glock if your comment was true?

    (Gasp) Think of all of the LEO's around the country that are AT RISK carrying Glocks, when according to you, they would have a safer and easier to learn weapon had their departments issued them 1911's!

    ...hmmmm...something doesn't pass the smell test here. The truth of the matter is that the easiest weapon on the market to transisiton revolver-shooters to semi-automatics is the Glock. NOT the 1911.

    I can only imagine a rookie cop on patrol carrying a 1911 cocked and locked while responding to a domestic disturbance... sort of brings the image of a lawsuit to your mind, doesn't it? Yet you claim it is safer in the hands of a noob than a Glock? I don't recall any Glock with a trigger pull of 2 pounds....or less.

    I dont dispute that some of you love your 1911's. God Bless you all! But the facts are crystal clear that it is NOT a weapon easily mastered by newbies, and in fact is generally only issued in LEO circles to the most advanced professionals, and generally SWAT or HRT members. That seems to splash a little water on your recommendation of the 1911 for newbies... at least it would to anyone with common sense and a knowledge of firearms.
    Maybe they select them because they are alot cheaper, I am sure police depts. don't look at budgets. HMMM and a rookie cop on that same domestic that has to disengage a safety on a 1911 rather than pull the trigger and it goes bang because he got the #%^* scared out of him. You are right something does not pass the smell test here, I would also venture to say the M&P line of pistols are just as reliable as the Glock and as easy to operate. As far as cocked and locked goes is it not more safe than a gun where all you have to do is pull the trgger, and yes the triggers on Glocks, M&P'S or whatever, are lighter than revolvers. I have carried all of the above and you can argue either way.

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    I would also like to recommend the XD45 Service or Compact. I have the 4" service.

    Cost is about $550. Has 13 +1 capacity. Awesome shooter and very accurate. Striker fired like a Glock but has a single action trigger. Almost as thin as a 1911 in grip size. Several aftermarket kits and parts available for it.

    Just points really good!





    “I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
    - Barack Obama Chicago Tribune, April 27, 2004

  5. #35
    Ex Member Array tooldawg99's Avatar
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    Already with the Glock Conspiracy theories? I know, all of you 1911's say the only reason Glock has the LEO market is because they give away their weapons... since obviously the 1911 is the best weapon on the planet... which still doesn't explain why the US Military opted away from the 1911 as a service pistol. Could it be that technology finally made the 1911 an outdated platform? Nah... its a conspiracy. It has to be.

    I have already said I understand you 1911's love your guns. That's fine. No problem with that at all. However, don't argue that the 1911 is safer than a GLock or a revolver, and easier to use. That's simply hogwash. You will never find a range instructor or CCW class leader that would suggest a first-time gun-owner go out and buy a 1911 anything. The 1911 is what it is: a superior and effective pistol for it's time, which was in the 1940's. It's 2010. Technology has changed and better weapons technology is available, offering designs that are simpler, safer, and much easier to master. (See Glock) Even the .45 cartridge is now offered in non-1911 platforms that use this advanced technology, and nobody can argue the effectiveness of the round. But many can, and do, select a platform consistent with the GLock design that eliminates grip safeties and condition one carry, matching the .45 round with a platform that is either GLock, or GLock-like.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Array TJK68's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    Already with the Glock Conspiracy theories? I know, all of you 1911's say the only reason Glock has the LEO market is because they give away their weapons... since obviously the 1911 is the best weapon on the planet... which still doesn't explain why the US Military opted away from the 1911 as a service pistol. Could it be that technology finally made the 1911 an outdated platform? Nah... its a conspiracy. It has to be.

    I have already said I understand you 1911's love your guns. That's fine. No problem with that at all. However, don't argue that the 1911 is safer than a GLock or a revolver, and easier to use. That's simply hogwash. You will never find a range instructor or CCW class leader that would suggest a first-time gun-owner go out and buy a 1911 anything. The 1911 is what it is: a superior and effective pistol for it's time, which was in the 1940's. It's 2010. Technology has changed and better weapons technology is available, offering designs that are simpler, safer, and much easier to master. (See Glock) Even the .45 cartridge is now offered in non-1911 platforms that use this advanced technology, and nobody can argue the effectiveness of the round. But many can, and do, select a platform consistent with the GLock design that eliminates grip safeties and condition one carry, matching the .45 round with a platform that is either GLock, or GLock-like.
    I never said the 1911 platform was the best, although after 100 years and it still being around and still in service with some very elite agencies, is as you say probably "hogwash". It is not the only choice out there, I know I know Glocks are, or excuse me, Glock like platforms are. LMAO.....
    I never said it was safer, in my opinion it is just as safe with proper training. But I guess you don't need training with Glock like platforms. I am not an expert though.

  7. #37
    Member Array vashooter's Avatar
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    I also would recommend the S&W M&P compact series - I have a M&P 9c and love it - it holds 12+1 rounds, is super accurate, ultra-reliable, and has a great feel and look to it. I'm not a Glock fan (don't fit my and well and look/feel like a block of wood). I'd also recommend a Kahr in 40 cal. The CW40 or it's slightly nicer P40 brother are excellent CCW pieces - super slim with great triggers. If you want a full size 1911 for a great price that has all the bells and whistles, look no further than the Taurus PT1911. For $650 or less you get a 1911 with two 8 round mags, match grade barrel, crisp trigger, generous checkering on front and back strap, flared/lowered ejection port, hand-fitted slide, polished feed ramp, ambidexterous safety, extended mag release, extended beavertail, and you can get Trijicon night sights for a few bucks more.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    The 1911 is one of the safest guns on the market and PROBABLY safer in the hands of a "noob" that a Glock.


    Gosh... I had no idea that 1911's were safer in the hands of "noobs" than Glocks. I wonder if anyone bothered to tell that to the hundereds of thousands of LEO agencies that switched from revolvers to Glocks? Why wouldn't they have selected the 1911 as their primary duty weapon instead of the Glock if your comment was true?

    (Gasp) Think of all of the LEO's around the country that are AT RISK carrying Glocks, when according to you, they would have a safer and easier to learn weapon had their departments issued them 1911's!

    ...hmmmm...something doesn't pass the smell test here. The truth of the matter is that the easiest weapon on the market to transisiton revolver-shooters to semi-automatics is the Glock. NOT the 1911.

    I can only imagine a rookie cop on patrol carrying a 1911 cocked and locked while responding to a domestic disturbance... sort of brings the image of a lawsuit to your mind, doesn't it? Yet you claim it is safer in the hands of a noob than a Glock? I don't recall any Glock with a trigger pull of 2 pounds....or less.

    I dont dispute that some of you love your 1911's. God Bless you all! But the facts are crystal clear that it is NOT a weapon easily mastered by newbies, and in fact is generally only issued in LEO circles to the most advanced professionals, and generally SWAT or HRT members. That seems to splash a little water on your recommendation of the 1911 for newbies... at least it would to anyone with common sense and a knowledge of firearms.
    If we were going to go a long with this type of mentality, every police agency would be driving a Volvo and not the crappy Dodges and Chryslers I see them in. We know that they shoot and drive the safest vehicles right?
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    The 1911 is one of the safest guns on the market and PROBABLY safer in the hands of a "noob" that a Glock.


    Gosh... I had no idea that 1911's were safer in the hands of "noobs" than Glocks. I wonder if anyone bothered to tell that to the hundereds of thousands of LEO agencies that switched from revolvers to Glocks? Why wouldn't they have selected the 1911 as their primary duty weapon instead of the Glock if your comment was true?

    (Gasp) Think of all of the LEO's around the country that are AT RISK carrying Glocks, when according to you, they would have a safer and easier to learn weapon had their departments issued them 1911's!

    ...hmmmm...something doesn't pass the smell test here. The truth of the matter is that the easiest weapon on the market to transisiton revolver-shooters to semi-automatics is the Glock. NOT the 1911.

    I can only imagine a rookie cop on patrol carrying a 1911 cocked and locked while responding to a domestic disturbance... sort of brings the image of a lawsuit to your mind, doesn't it? Yet you claim it is safer in the hands of a noob than a Glock? I don't recall any Glock with a trigger pull of 2 pounds....or less.

    I dont dispute that some of you love your 1911's. God Bless you all! But the facts are crystal clear that it is NOT a weapon easily mastered by newbies, and in fact is generally only issued in LEO circles to the most advanced professionals, and generally SWAT or HRT members. That seems to splash a little water on your recommendation of the 1911 for newbies... at least it would to anyone with common sense and a knowledge of firearms.
    I didn't say anything about the Glocks NOT being safe, hell I carry one. I didn't say LEO's are at RISK. There are rookies carrying 1911's all over the place.. The 1911 is a very safe gun. Everything you are saying is about the USER and not the FIREARM itself.

    What is your experience? You're getting a little too defensive about a simple comment.. I own them all and have extensive experience with them on the range, at a class and working on the internals. I don't know what your common sense and knowledge of firearms is (your words), but I put over 700 rounds a week down range through 1911's, Sigs and now a Glock and M&P (both again). I attend at least three classes a year and shoot IDPA nearly every weekend or two.

    This is consistently for the past 8 or 9 years. I think you are speaking out of line and on a thought - not experience. I also think you'll find MANY that disagree with you. Please show us where you get your info from. Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koontzy View Post
    Ok I guess I need to update a post with some info about me... I am not a "noob" when it comes to guns. I have been shooting guns since I was 10 years old. Starting with shotguns, and working up to pistols around the age of 15.
    I never thought you were a noob! I also think I should apologize for this derailment. Some silly statements were made and though I should have laughed (maybe showed a friend or two) and moved on, I fed into it and veered off track. Sorry about that, but when info like that is posted, it NEEDS corrected so someone that actually is a new shooter doesn't read it and think it's correct information.

    The point of my post was to show you what is in my carry rotation and how many of them were in your price range. I like options and enjoy the different platforms. I was strictly 1911's for a good while and am just coming back around. There's no ONE perfect gun, but with enough of them, there's usually one to fit every need. I love my 1911's. they carry better than just about everything else and are VERY fast out of the holster for an accurate first shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    Buying a 1911 platform pistol for a first-time CCW holder is very much like getting a Lamborghini for a 15-year old who just got his driver's license.
    By the way... When I was 15 in 1995 - before obtaining my Driver's License - I had a '66 Mustang GT that I restored in time for when I turned 16. At 16 in 1996, my Mom gave me here 1995 RX7 twin-turbo. Never an accident or a ticket, but a lot of time on the track and a class with Skip Barber. At 18, I got a BMW M3. Still alive, no one injured and still have a license.

    I had friends with much better cars than I had....they learned to drive on them - one a BMW M5 and one a 911 twin turbo - and they're all the better for it.

    Real good point though.


    Quote Originally Posted by DIABLO9489 View Post
    I'll second the recommendation for the Dan Wesson V-Bob

    jonconsiglio- I thought I was the only one who wears True Religion jeans on this forum
    I thought I was the only one here that even knew what True Religions were!! Awesome!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  10. #40
    Ex Member Array tooldawg99's Avatar
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    I wouldn't think that posting comments from my personal experience would be considered "out of line", but if that means that I don't support a 1911 platform as a CCW option for a newly licensed carrier, then fine: i'm out of line.

    My comments are based on personal experience. I have owned 1911's and I currently own Glocks. Some people are excellent in handling and carrying 1911's. I am not. I consider myself a rank amateur in the world of firearms. I have maintained a CCW permit for 20 years, in more than 5 states. I have more than 15 years of military service and had military and civilian training in pistols, shotguns, and edged weapons. I have achieved marksman status in handguns and long guns, but last qualified in 2001, and qualify annually to local LEO standards with the reserve program.
    I consider myself a rank amateur in sidearms because the only other status in my opinion is current LEO. Everyone else is a civilian, and at least LEO's are required to maintain and qualify with a handgun on a regular basis. My comments are based on my experience and my observations, nothing else.
    If you want to assert that 1911's are safer than Glocks, I will disagree. I will also disagree that 1911's are easier to train in proper handling and live-fire exercises than Glocks. Most LEO programs would also fail to support your statement. Military use and application of 1911's would also fail to support your argument. Civilain sales of handguns would also tend to disprove your comments, as more Glocks and striker-fired weapons are sold than 1911's, with no qualifications or explanations needed. 1911's are a cult-status weapon, and there are some world-famous supporters of the 1911 platform. However, for daily CCW for most gun-toting civilians, the Glock and Glock-like weapons are the preferred choice, hands-down. Why? Simplicity, ease of use, and capacity. Even 1911 lovers would have a hard time disputing that the revolver is the most basic, simple, and reliable weapon ever made, and although hardly a monument to technology, is the most popular weapon on the planet. The 1911 is not. The Glock, and Glock-like weapons have amassed a following that far ournumbers 1911 owners, for very simple reasons: safety, ease of operation, and capacity. That does not mean Glocks don't need training or instruction. But far less is required of GLocks than is required to be proficient with a 1911. Does that mean 1911's are no good? No. But it does mean that far more people select non-1911 platforms than the Glocks, and if that offends you 1911-owners, you need to get a thicker skin. Automatic transmissions far out-sell manual transmissions, but racecars are generally stick-shifts... meaning a new driver will generally fare better in a manual transmission, especially if taking a driver's test, than they would driving a stick. Same principal with 1911's: a great gun for the professionals, but not so much for the every-day CCW holder.
    You can all go back to bowing at your John Browning idols now. Class is dismissed.

  11. #41
    Member Array Mr7point62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    Already with the Glock Conspiracy theories? I know, all of you 1911's say the only reason Glock has the LEO market is because they give away their weapons... since obviously the 1911 is the best weapon on the planet... which still doesn't explain why the US Military opted away from the 1911 as a service pistol. Could it be that technology finally made the 1911 an outdated platform? Nah... its a conspiracy. It has to be.

    I have already said I understand you 1911's love your guns. That's fine. No problem with that at all. However, don't argue that the 1911 is safer than a GLock or a revolver, and easier to use. That's simply hogwash. You will never find a range instructor or CCW class leader that would suggest a first-time gun-owner go out and buy a 1911 anything. The 1911 is what it is: a superior and effective pistol for it's time, which was in the 1940's. It's 2010. Technology has changed and better weapons technology is available, offering designs that are simpler, safer, and much easier to master. (See Glock) Even the .45 cartridge is now offered in non-1911 platforms that use this advanced technology, and nobody can argue the effectiveness of the round. But many can, and do, select a platform consistent with the GLock design that eliminates grip safeties and condition one carry, matching the .45 round with a platform that is either GLock, or GLock-like.
    I never said I didnt like Glocks. When I was a Marine we used Berettas. and Honestly they were the worst pistols, I hated them. I am sure the Marines switched because of money reasons, but I wish they would have gave us a better pistol to use.

  12. #42
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I'll cover the first two in your "druthers". The 1911 and the SIG can become one....in my opinion. I found that with the P220 SAO version. That's what I carry for my 1911 these days. Might say I moved up with more modern times. Don't get me wrong, the old 1911A1 is still one dear to my heart. But it is what it is. I depend more on my Glocks in the lesser calibers for good reason.

  13. #43
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    I wouldn't think that posting comments from my personal experience would be considered "out of line", but if that means that I don't support a 1911 platform as a CCW option for a newly licensed carrier, then fine: i'm out of line.

    My comments are based on personal experience.
    Hey, personal experience is what we have and all we really have to offer. What I think was a little out of line is quoted below, the rest was your opinion and whether I think it's right or wrong, doesn't make that out of line at all. Opinion is a good thing because at least we think something about it... What I meant by experience was are you a serious shooter that can run both platforms and do you have extensive experience with both and extensive experience with teaching new shooters with different platforms. There's a lot of levels besides amateur and LEO - expert, master, novice, NRA Certified, different certificate levels from different schools.... I know a LOT of LEO's I wouldn't hand a loaded firearm too regardless of the platform. They're training is not usually something to be bragged about or use as any kind of standard.

    I see a number of them at the range a day or two before their qualifications getting some practice in. their qualifications are hardly more than out CHL classes. Now, I have a few friends on SWAT and regular patrol officers that can shoot circles around most, but that has very little to do with them being LEO (SWAT obviously gets extensive training), but the fact that they practice regularly and do more than just shoot on static ranges.

    Having said all of this and loving my 1911's, my primary carry is quickly becoming the Glock 17 Gen 4. It may end up staying that way, mixing in the M&P quite often and the Nighthawks for specific reasons. Never thought I'd like a Glock this much!

    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    That seems to splash a little water on your recommendation of the 1911 for newbies... at least it would to anyone with common sense and a knowledge of firearms.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    Already with the Glock Conspiracy theories? I know, all of you 1911's say the only reason Glock has the LEO market is because they give away their weapons... since obviously the 1911 is the best weapon on the planet... which still doesn't explain why the US Military opted away from the 1911 as a service pistol. Could it be that technology finally made the 1911 an outdated platform? Nah... its a conspiracy. It has to be.

    I have already said I understand you 1911's love your guns. That's fine. No problem with that at all. However, don't argue that the 1911 is safer than a GLock or a revolver, and easier to use. That's simply hogwash. You will never find a range instructor or CCW class leader that would suggest a first-time gun-owner go out and buy a 1911 anything. The 1911 is what it is: a superior and effective pistol for it's time, which was in the 1940's. It's 2010. Technology has changed and better weapons technology is available, offering designs that are simpler, safer, and much easier to master. (See Glock) Even the .45 cartridge is now offered in non-1911 platforms that use this advanced technology, and nobody can argue the effectiveness of the round. But many can, and do, select a platform consistent with the GLock design that eliminates grip safeties and condition one carry, matching the .45 round with a platform that is either GLock, or GLock-like.
    Do you work in the industry? Are you in contact with these people? Where are you coming up with this stuff?? Seriously? I was starting to give you a break, but I didn't see this stuff. Military now since the LEO argument didn't hold up? I'm being very serious, where are you getting your info from?

    One minute you're saying that SWAT and HRT, etc. are running 1911's because their advanced combat handguns, now you're saying they're outdated and great combat guns for the '40's

    You have contradicted yourself already IN A SINGLE THREAD. You pretty much just lost the last one or two that might have been buying your "info"

    To FIX another one of your statements - there are more 1911's in the US than there are Glocks. Google it, there's an article about it.

    I figured it out. YOU WORK AT A GUN SHOP? Mostly people at gun shops would tell a new shooter that the revolver is they way to go. I bet you tell woman that too that are looking for their first handgun.

    Besides bashing a platform you're not experience with and silly info, what have you contributed to the thread and to Koontzy, who opened the thread? What has he learned from you and how have you helped?
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    The 1911 is one of the safest guns on the market and PROBABLY safer in the hands of a "noob" that a Glock.

    Gosh... I had no idea that 1911's were safer in the hands of "noobs" than Glocks. I wonder if anyone bothered to tell that to the hundereds of thousands of LEO agencies that switched from revolvers to Glocks? Why wouldn't they have selected the 1911 as their primary duty weapon instead of the Glock if your comment was true?

    (Gasp) Think of all of the LEO's around the country that are AT RISK carrying Glocks, when according to you, they would have a safer and easier to learn weapon had their departments issued them 1911's!

    ...hmmmm...something doesn't pass the smell test here. The truth of the matter is that the easiest weapon on the market to transisiton revolver-shooters to semi-automatics is the Glock. NOT the 1911.

    I can only imagine a rookie cop on patrol carrying a 1911 cocked and locked while responding to a domestic disturbance... sort of brings the image of a lawsuit to your mind, doesn't it? Yet you claim it is safer in the hands of a noob than a Glock? I don't recall any Glock with a trigger pull of 2 pounds....or less.

    I dont dispute that some of you love your 1911's. God Bless you all! But the facts are crystal clear that it is NOT a weapon easily mastered by newbies, and in fact is generally only issued in LEO circles to the most advanced professionals, and generally SWAT or HRT members. That seems to splash a little water on your recommendation of the 1911 for newbies... at least it would to anyone with common sense and a knowledge of firearms.
    Let's not get carried away with hyperbole.

    Maybe hundreds of thousands of LEOs, definitely not hundreds thousands of LEO agencies.

    The mass changeover in law enforcement wasn't from revolvers to Glocks, it was from 1st generation "wondernines" and their spawn to Glocks. Glocks were pretty rare in the US before the mid-1980s, by which time the semiauto pistol had overtaken revolvers among US law enforcement. Glocks gained a tremendous foothold in the early 90s because of hard-to-beat pricing, not due to any overwhelming technical superiority. And when Glock was busy out-selling S&W, SIG and Beretta, Colt was the only major supplier of 1911s at the time – Springfield Armory and Kimber were just entering the 1911 fray. Colt’s pricing policies were simply not competitive at the time; if you wanted a 1911, that meant Colt, and for a Colt you were going to pay top dollar, LE agency or not. Glock initially gained their popularity by smart pricing.

    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    The truth of the matter is that the easiest weapon on the market to transisiton revolver-shooters to semi-automatics is the Glock. NOT the 1911.
    Strictly conjecture on your part. I won't argue the case because there is simply no way to prove it one way or the other. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

    Don't overlook the fact that millions of US servicemen successfully trained on the 1911 long before there was a Glock alternative. The point here is that a lot more “newbies” mastered the 1911 over time than Glocks, and managed it without major carnage or “collateral damage.”

    One can argue what’s ultimately safer, a gun with “only” a trigger safety versus one with a manual safety. Strict discipline re Rule Three (finger off the trigger) obviates concerns about a light trigger. Cocked and locked puts a lot of civilian police administrators into a tizzy over what might happen, but I daresay there are probably as many cops with leg shots from Glocks as there are civilians shot by cops because of cocked and locked carry.

    And please – two pound triggers? You’re not going to find those in agency-issued 1911s.

    Glocks are fine handguns – not knocking them. I own one and I shoot it well. However, I’m hard-pressed to declare it “safer” in any manner than a 1911.

    Stay safe.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

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