Help me select my first Carry Gun:) Pics please:) - Page 4

Help me select my first Carry Gun:) Pics please:)

This is a discussion on Help me select my first Carry Gun:) Pics please:) within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Consiglio: I really don't know what exactly you want, except that you dislike for someone to have an opinion contrary to yours. My comment about ...

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  1. #46
    Ex Member Array tooldawg99's Avatar
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    Consiglio: I really don't know what exactly you want, except that you dislike for someone to have an opinion contrary to yours.

    My comment about SWAT and HRT was related to the TRAINING those users undergo, nothing else. I do think the 1911 is out-dated, and not a good choice for a CCW. However, in the hands of people that undero rigorous training it can be an effective weapon. Most CCW holders do not undergo the training of HRT or SWAT members, so I don't feel the 1911 is a good weapon for them.

    I hardly see my comment as a contradiction. Maybe I can be more clear: if a CCW holder is going to get the same amount and quality of training as a HRT or SWAT member, complete with tactical and consistent range firing sessions, the 1911 can be a great weapon choice.

    Does that make sense to you? It is exactly what I have said in my other posts. Yes, I think the 1911 was at it's technology peak in the 1940's. Can you tell me any other technological advancement that has been made to the 1911 since 1940? Seems to be the same weapon now as it was then. But I am not a 1911 fan, so I may be wrong. Any changes to the firing system? safety system? Anything different from Browning's design patent? Hmmm.... if not, then my statement is correct. Obviously you disagree, but aside from a deep and unabiding love for the 1911, your dispute seems more of a disdain for the thought of someone not in love with the 1911, instead of a factual dispute of the statements that Glocks might be better-suited for most CCW holders than the 1911.
    No personal offense intended. I am sure there are people who still love muzzleloaders...but that doesn't mean they are the best choice for self defense. If it works for you, great. But I'd suggest being a little more accepting of the fact that your "true-love" is a weapon system that peaked more than 60 years ago, and might not be such a perfect choice for 2010. But I am sure that about 2% of the gun-owning population of the world agree with you in thinking the 1911 is a good CCW choice for new CCW holders. Of course, that same 2% also still believe in the Easter Bunny and think Elvis is alive and well and living in Newark, NJ.


  2. #47
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    Your preference for 1911 weapons is a sound choice. They have helped to keep our country free for a century. They are a marvel of engineering. if things go bad a I had to defend myself with a pistol its my first choice. I suspect that in another hundred years they will still be relavent. I have carried full sized 1911s for years and am currently in the market for a wilson cqb. I would recomend a Springfield or a Colt since I have experience with those. I also own plastic pistols but do not see them as an improvement just different. Choose what u like and train and shoot and keep your skills sharp because in the end the weapon is a but a tool for a sharp mind and sharp skills.
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  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    Consiglio: I really don't know what exactly you want, except that you dislike for someone to have an opinion contrary to yours.

    My comment about SWAT and HRT was related to the TRAINING those users undergo, nothing else. I do think the 1911 is out-dated, and not a good choice for a CCW. However, in the hands of people that undero rigorous training it can be an effective weapon. Most CCW holders do not undergo the training of HRT or SWAT members, so I don't feel the 1911 is a good weapon for them.

    I hardly see my comment as a contradiction. Maybe I can be more clear: if a CCW holder is going to get the same amount and quality of training as a HRT or SWAT member, complete with tactical and consistent range firing sessions, the 1911 can be a great weapon choice.

    Does that make sense to you? It is exactly what I have said in my other posts. Yes, I think the 1911 was at it's technology peak in the 1940's. Can you tell me any other technological advancement that has been made to the 1911 since 1940? Seems to be the same weapon now as it was then. But I am not a 1911 fan, so I may be wrong. Any changes to the firing system? safety system? Anything different from Browning's design patent? Hmmm.... if not, then my statement is correct. Obviously you disagree, but aside from a deep and unabiding love for the 1911, your dispute seems more of a disdain for the thought of someone not in love with the 1911, instead of a factual dispute of the statements that Glocks might be better-suited for most CCW holders than the 1911.
    No personal offense intended. I am sure there are people who still love muzzleloaders...but that doesn't mean they are the best choice for self defense. If it works for you, great. But I'd suggest being a little more accepting of the fact that your "true-love" is a weapon system that peaked more than 60 years ago, and might not be such a perfect choice for 2010. But I am sure that about 2% of the gun-owning population of the world agree with you in thinking the 1911 is a good CCW choice for new CCW holders. Of course, that same 2% also still believe in the Easter Bunny and think Elvis is alive and well and living in Newark, NJ.
    Some of the points you make are the same things people say about Glock's, lets face it the design is almost thirty years old. Just like the 1911, Glock's were an amazing design that has been copied and will be around for a long time, but they have not hardly changed at all since 1982. Glock's went from being cutting edge to now trying to catch up to other manufacturers that have had G4 features for years. Just say'n.....
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  4. #49
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    Interesting reading. But exhausting.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooldawg99 View Post
    Consiglio: I really don't know what exactly you want, except that you dislike for someone to have an opinion contrary to yours.

    My comment about SWAT and HRT was related to the TRAINING those users undergo, nothing else. I do think the 1911 is out-dated, and not a good choice for a CCW. However, in the hands of people that undero rigorous training it can be an effective weapon. Most CCW holders do not undergo the training of HRT or SWAT members, so I don't feel the 1911 is a good weapon for them.

    I hardly see my comment as a contradiction. Maybe I can be more clear: if a CCW holder is going to get the same amount and quality of training as a HRT or SWAT member, complete with tactical and consistent range firing sessions, the 1911 can be a great weapon choice.

    Does that make sense to you? It is exactly what I have said in my other posts. Yes, I think the 1911 was at it's technology peak in the 1940's. Can you tell me any other technological advancement that has been made to the 1911 since 1940? Seems to be the same weapon now as it was then. But I am not a 1911 fan, so I may be wrong. Any changes to the firing system? safety system? Anything different from Browning's design patent? Hmmm.... if not, then my statement is correct. Obviously you disagree, but aside from a deep and unabiding love for the 1911, your dispute seems more of a disdain for the thought of someone not in love with the 1911, instead of a factual dispute of the statements that Glocks might be better-suited for most CCW holders than the 1911.
    No personal offense intended. I am sure there are people who still love muzzleloaders...but that doesn't mean they are the best choice for self defense. If it works for you, great. But I'd suggest being a little more accepting of the fact that your "true-love" is a weapon system that peaked more than 60 years ago, and might not be such a perfect choice for 2010. But I am sure that about 2% of the gun-owning population of the world agree with you in thinking the 1911 is a good CCW choice for new CCW holders. Of course, that same 2% also still believe in the Easter Bunny and think Elvis is alive and well and living in Newark, NJ.
    i am new here, but this post is nonsubstancial.... you asked what changes the 1911 has made, and whatr has changed since the origional Browning Patent? Not much from my views, but from my viewpoint, I will say what my dad always says "DONT FIX IT IF IT AINT BROKE" the 1911 hasnt changed much for a reason..... Its a great design...

    You can dislike any gun you want brother, thats for sure.. As I stated earlier I dislike Berettas. Pistols, Shotguns, doesnt matter, I dislike them.

    Now please back to my OP please:) enough bickering...

  6. #51
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  7. #52
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    I've been looking at the M&P lately. I have three Glocks and many others to choose from, but the M&P looks like it could be an awesome defensive tool. My suggestion, get to the range and rent a few of the ones mentioned here and have at it. Don't do what I've done and buy whatever makes your eyes pop out only to let it sit with all it's friends in the safe after a few weeks of carry.


    Good luck to ya.
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  8. #53
    New Member Array Asher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koontzy View Post
    OK so I took my CWP class, and I will have to wait 90 days of course to see if I get approved for it, but I am pretty sure I am good to go:) So why not spend the next 3 months shooting, testing and looking for my first carry gun.

    So I figured why not take the great advice from all of you to help me select.

    Heres what I think I want:)

    -Under $800
    -Would prefer a higher caliber, preferabbly .40 or .45
    -needs to be something comfortable for me (5' 10'' 150 pounds, I am a skinnier guy)

    I like the following
    -1911's (definatly my favorite)
    -Sig
    -Glock

    Others i havent been around as much.. I like the 1911 looks, and I think thats my top choice, but i have been told that with a 800 buck limit a 1911 might be out of the question?

    Also I am 5' 10'' and around 150 pounds, so I am a skinny guy. So any pics of you carrying your gun and how you carry it would also help me select.
    congrads on the CCW class,
    We where all in the same boat as you at one time or another... I can tell you from my experience and maybe you can learn from them. When I signed up for the CCW I purchased a S&W F/S M&P9. I choose the gun because it felt good in my hand and I got a great deal on it. I bought the gun in 9mm because I knew I was going to shoot ALOT (I belong to a private indoor range that has 24/7 access) and I priced ammo in 9, 40, 45.. The 9mm were a decent amount cheaper then the others, maybe the 9 isnt' a huge caliber but I am a firm believer that shot placement far out weights bullet size. I would rather be a excellent shot with my 9 then a good shot with a larger cal (because I can afford to shoot more with lower cost of ammo). I also has come to realize that I am a "cheap B" (just like my wife says) and I knew that if I spent $800+ dollars on a hand gun that I might be alittle more reserved about wearing it all the time (worrying about damage, etc). But if I bought something in the -$500ish range that I would look at it as more disposible and a work tool that I wouldn't mind getting dirty, scratched, or rub marks.

    Now that thats out of the way, I love my M&P but I soon realized that it is a pretty good size gun to conceal (I only IWB), I purchased a expensive holster (crossbreed) and the gun is pretty much my EDC. BUT I am a larger boned, 6'2" 240lb guy so I can hide it pretty well, but I did start searching for a smaller gun that would be easier to conceal for minimal dress on hot summer days... I started looking for a single stack / compact gun for another option and wound up with a Taurus 709slim, a heck alot easier to conceal for short outtings and the price was very reasonable.

    (sorry need to stop rambling)

    Don't forget to budget in the cost for accessories, you need a good holster, belt, more mags, and lots of ammo, and money for range time. You can buy a "double OO buck-laser scoped-remote control bullet-ozi shooter", but if you cant get it out of your $20 holster in time you really didn't fit your needs...

    If you got $800 to spare, I might look at guns in the -$600 range and take the rest and put it towards accessories.

    Just offering you a different out look on things, I am sure some might agree, but others will think I am crazy...

    Happy shooting!!!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher View Post
    congrads on the CCW class,
    We where all in the same boat as you at one time or another... I can tell you from my experience and maybe you can learn from them. When I signed up for the CCW I purchased a S&W F/S M&P9. I choose the gun because it felt good in my hand and I got a great deal on it. I bought the gun in 9mm because I knew I was going to shoot ALOT (I belong to a private indoor range that has 24/7 access) and I priced ammo in 9, 40, 45.. The 9mm were a decent amount cheaper then the others, maybe the 9 isnt' a huge caliber but I am a firm believer that shot placement far out weights bullet size. I would rather be a excellent shot with my 9 then a good shot with a larger cal (because I can afford to shoot more with lower cost of ammo). I also has come to realize that I am a "cheap B" (just like my wife says) and I knew that if I spent $800+ dollars on a hand gun that I might be alittle more reserved about wearing it all the time (worrying about damage, etc). But if I bought something in the -$500ish range that I would look at it as more disposible and a work tool that I wouldn't mind getting dirty, scratched, or rub marks.

    Now that thats out of the way, I love my M&P but I soon realized that it is a pretty good size gun to conceal (I only IWB), I purchased a expensive holster (crossbreed) and the gun is pretty much my EDC. BUT I am a larger boned, 6'2" 240lb guy so I can hide it pretty well, but I did start searching for a smaller gun that would be easier to conceal for minimal dress on hot summer days... I started looking for a single stack / compact gun for another option and wound up with a Taurus 709slim, a heck alot easier to conceal for short outtings and the price was very reasonable.

    (sorry need to stop rambling)

    Don't forget to budget in the cost for accessories, you need a good holster, belt, more mags, and lots of ammo, and money for range time. You can buy a "double OO buck-laser scoped-remote control bullet-ozi shooter", but if you cant get it out of your $20 holster in time you really didn't fit your needs...

    If you got $800 to spare, I might look at guns in the -$600 range and take the rest and put it towards accessories.

    Just offering you a different out look on things, I am sure some might agree, but others will think I am crazy...

    Happy shooting!!!
    I was with you until you recommended "The Bull"
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    tooldawg, my problem is that I feel someone with very little experience with the 1911 is making comments that are in no way true. This forum is full of amateurs, advanced shooters and professionals. All in this thread have disagreed with you. I understand you probably feel this way because of your personal experience with the 1911. Unfortunately, it's not that way for most others. And your comments about the platform are absurd and unfounded.

    My problem with that isn't that you don't like it or feel it's only for the advanced or that it's unsafe (another inexperienced comment), but that you tell others that. Others that may be well served by the platform. Bad thing to do here, or anywhere.

    Koontzy - Take a look at the M&P too. A lot have mentioned it and it's an awesome gun and can be made to run very, very well. Mine is right where I like it and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

    Oh, and with all my 1911's I'm still carrying a Glock 17 today!

    Quote Originally Posted by Asher View Post
    Don't forget to budget in the cost for accessories, you need a good holster, belt, more mags, and lots of ammo, and money for range time. You can buy a "double OO buck-laser scoped-remote control bullet-ozi shooter", but if you cant get it out of your $20 holster in time you really didn't fit your needs...

    If you got $800 to spare, I might look at guns in the -$600 range and take the rest and put it towards accessories.

    Just offering you a different out look on things, I am sure some might agree, but others will think I am crazy...

    Happy shooting!!!
    Good advice - A good holster is essential and will make all the difference in what you carry and how often. A comfortable holster with the loops spread wide past the holster body is one of the most comfortable options for carry, like the Crossbreed, Milt Sparks VMII, M-Tac, DefCon-V, etc.. it will keep the gun from shifting and spread the weight, almost like snowshoes.

    Keep us posted on your search.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    Onto easy mastering of a newbie. The response is harsh, for example I believe that anyone who buys a pistol and doesnt train on it before carrying it; is a IDIOT, plain and simple. If I buy a 1911, I will read all the info I can and practice for at least a month on it before I begin to carry it for everyday defense.
    except a person trained with a 1911 still has a possibility to fail to disengage the safety in a split second self defense situation, wheres there is nothing to fail to do when pulling and firing a DAO striker fired firearm. humans are fallible.
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  12. #57
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    consiglio: I am not posting my comments in order to win a popularity contest, and I certainly don't agree with most of your generalizations any more than you agree with mine. That's fine.

    BUt to say my comments are absurd, unfounded, and that everyone disagrees with my points is equally ignorant of the posts. Many agree with me, and several have posted just that. Selective reading means you miss a lot. Let's agree to disagree. You certainly have not won me over with your argument, and neither position has much relevance to the OP's question.

  13. #58
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    You're right! I just started the P90X and am so burnt out I can't do much but sit here with the computer... Any gun can be safe as long as the user keeps his finger out of the trigger. I see a lot of people say things like this gun is safer than this one or even the XD is much safer than a 1911, when I'm sure we can both agree that it's essentially the same idea - fully cocked with a thumb and grip safety. I don't mean to argue that your points are right or wrong for each individual, I'm just basing it on the gun itself.

    We've gone off on our own thing here and really, neither of us is wrong if we're speaking of our own experience or even of experiences we've personally seen of others. I don't know you and if I met you in person, we could be good friends. We're allowed to have our own opinions and that shouldn't cause us to make these kinds of comments.

    So, I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
    except a person trained with a 1911 still has a possibility to fail to disengage the safety in a split second self defense situation, wheres there is nothing to fail to do when pulling and firing a DAO striker fired firearm. humans are fallible.
    Don't you start now! That won't happen. Please, until you've owned these guns and have shot many thousands of rounds from the draw from that particular gun, don't make comments about something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. If I recall, you've never owned a 1911.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; August 17th, 2010 at 04:27 PM. Reason: Spelling
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    You're right! I just started the P90X and am so burnt out I can't do much but sit here with the computer... Any gun can be safe as long as the user keeps his finger out of the trigger. I see a lot of people say things like this gun is safer than this one or even the XD is much safer than a 1911, when I'm sure we can both agree that it's essentially the same idea - fully cocked with a thumb and grip safety. I don't mean to argue that your points are right or wrong for each individual, I'm just basing it on the gun itself.

    We've gone off on our own thing here and really, neither of us is wrong if we're speaking of our own experience or even of experiences we've personally seen of others. I don't know you and if I met you in person, we could be good friends. We're allowed to have our own opinions and that shouldn't cause us to make these kinds of comments.

    So, I apologize.



    Don't you start now! That won't happen. Please, until you've owned these guns and have shot many thousands of rounds from the draw from that particular gun, don't make comments about something that DOES NOT HAPPEN. If I recall, you've never owned a 1911.
    He's doesn't even own another handgun for that matter! LOL........
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    I was with you until you recommended "The Bull"
    Didn't recommend "the calf", just telling my story ... My perfect deep conceal gun (for me) would be a compact 9, exposed hammer, single stack, DA/SA with a manual safety (that I probably wouldn't use because I could decock it)... And all of this for under $600.00... The Beretta PX4 storm was close but the double stack made it really thick. The Kimber ultra was very close also but quickly struck out in my price range.

    I'm not one to be a "gun brand cheerleader", I say find what fits you needs/wants and shoot it alot, and then shoot it somemore. I own a ton of different make guns and I have been lucky that all but one is trouble free and they are all more accurate then the shooter...

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