1911 carry cocked and safety off?!

1911 carry cocked and safety off?!

This is a discussion on 1911 carry cocked and safety off?! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I ran into a guy a guy who does just this today,he carries in a milt sparks VM II and his gun is a kimber ...

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Thread: 1911 carry cocked and safety off?!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array 1911luver's Avatar
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    1911 carry cocked and safety off?!

    I ran into a guy a guy who does just this today,he carries in a milt sparks VM II and his gun is a kimber pro carry. His reasoning was he carries different gun i.e. SA only/DAO and he doesn't want to forget to flip off the safety if his life is on the line. He also told me "how is it any different than carrying a Glock chambered in a proper holster?" "at least my 1911 has a grip safety and its not going off if my finger stays off of the trigger".

    I have to say I found this odd to say the least,has anyone here ever heard of this before with a 1911? I've heard of some people carrying 1911's with deactivated grip safeties but not with the thumb safety in the "off" position. in your opinions what is the best way to cross train from say a DAO revolver to a 1911 so you don't forget to flip off the thumb safety?
    Snub nose revolvers,the original concealed carry guns.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array HK Dan's Avatar
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    Well, a 1911 is a light single action gun. It most certainly IS different than carrying a GLOCK. The man is fool hardy to say the least.
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Tell me how carrying the 1911 that way is any different than carrying a XD.

    The Kimber (assuming it's a-II version) has a firing pin safety that can't be deactivated unless the grip safety is depressed (iirc).

    It wouldn't be my choice, but he's got a point.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

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    Senior Member Array wvshooter's Avatar
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    As HK Dan said the 1911 has a light weight trigger pull and the length needed to release the sear is very short. This is nothing like a Glock trigger pull.

    IMO this is a very dangerous practice. I'll say right now that if he carries the gun that way long enough he WILL have a ND.
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    Senior Member Array Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvshooter View Post
    As HK Dan said the 1911 has a light weight trigger pull and the length needed to release the sear is very short. This is nothing like a Glock trigger pull.

    IMO this is a very dangerous practice. I'll say right now that if he carries the gun that way long enough he WILL have a ND.
    I'm hardly a 1911 expert, so help me out on this one. I know that the Glock comparison is a little off because of the length of pull and weight of the trigger. However, a proper function 1911 will not fire if the grip safety is not depressed. Therefore, if the holster covers the trigger, and the grip safety is not depressed, it is no less safe than carrying a Glock. The manual safety is a redundant safety feature, no? Of course, JMB designed the 1911 with two safeties for a reason, so we should all use them, right?

    Personally, I don't have a problem with a safety. I've only got one gun with a manual safety; a Sig P220 SAO. I carry it cocked and locked. Of course, it doesn't have a grip safety.

    Not trying to start an argument here. I'm just curious why two people are pointing to a definite N/D without the thumb safety engaged. Is it common for the grip safety to fail?
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    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    I don't think they are worried about a ND in the holster. It is easier to fire one off pulling it out in a life or death situation? Not sure. I guess if you keep the finger away from the bang switch you'd be alright, but I sure as heck would just train with the safety.
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

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    Mmmmm, I wonder why that put it there?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1911luver View Post
    I ran into a guy a guy who does just this today,he carries in a milt sparks VM II and his gun is a kimber pro carry. His reasoning was he carries different gun i.e. SA only/DAO and he doesn't want to forget to flip off the safety if his life is on the line. He also told me "how is it any different than carrying a Glock chambered in a proper holster?" "at least my 1911 has a grip safety and its not going off if my finger stays off of the trigger".

    I have to say I found this odd to say the least,has anyone here ever heard of this before with a 1911? I've heard of some people carrying 1911's with deactivated grip safeties but not with the thumb safety in the "off" position. in your opinions what is the best way to cross train from say a DAO revolver to a 1911 so you don't forget to flip off the thumb safety?
    I'd avoid being anyplace near this guy. he's a negligent discharge waiting to happen.
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I'd avoid being anyplace near this guy. he's a negligent discharge waiting to happen.
    I want you to--logically--explain to me why this guy has a greater risk of having an ND than someone who carries a Springfield XD.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    I want you to--logically--explain to me why this guy has a greater risk of having an ND than someone who carries a Springfield XD.
    Cuda,

    Fantastic point! The only difference is the lighter trigger in all honesty.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Cuda,

    Fantastic point! The only difference is the lighter trigger in all honesty.
    However, on both, the trigger cannot be pressed without the grip safety being disengaged...and, fwiw, more than a few people have had trigger jobs done on their carry XD's that lighten & smooth out the trigger.

    So, I'm still waiting.

    Personally, if I were to carry a 1911 again, it would be condition one--but that's because I'm used to my 1911's being in that condition.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    The differnce ISA 1911 is carried cocked AND locked. The xd does not have a hammer that can fall and strike the fireing pin if a mechanical failure occurs, or if the hammer recieved a hard enough knock to cause it to slip the sear. The xd does not have this problem as it is cocked AS the trigger is pulled. Anyone not understand this should not carry a 1911. So wait no longer. The only safety not necassary on the 1911 is the palm safety.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    So, I'm still waiting.
    Here's all I could find.
    http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/cockedandlocked.htm

    "Another interesting “safety feature” of the M1911 was first observed by Massad Ayoob. In the event that a bad guy might get your gun away from you, confusion about the controls of the cocked and locked M1911 could cause him enough hesitation to give you a chance to either get the gun back or flee. The current generation of thugs have cut their teeth on double action semi-autos and revolvers and many do not know how the M1911 operates. Ayoob tested this with people who were unfamiliar with pistols by giving them unloaded pistols of various designs and measuring how long it took them to figure out the controls and make the hammer drop. The M1911 proved to be considerably slower to fire than double action guns in the hands of those who are unfamiliar with the gun."
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    This is known as Condition 0 carry, with Condition 1 being "cocked and locked." I have to admit that I've pondered this exact same question.

    Glock: Pull trigger, it goes bang.

    1911 in Condition 0: Compress grip safety -and- pull trigger, it goes bang.

    So I can see the guy's point. I would personally never carry with the thumb safety off because it doesn't "feel" safe to me, but I've considered the above question.

    We can also toss DA and DA/SA revolvers into the mix; no external safety whatsoever, yet people pocket carry them without a second thought.
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    The differnce ISA 1911 is carried cocked AND locked. The xd does not have a hammer that can fall and strike the fireing pin if a mechanical failure occurs, or if the hammer recieved a hard enough knock to cause it to slip the sear. The xd does not have this problem as it is cocked AS the trigger is pulled. Anyone not understand this should not carry a 1911. So wait no longer. The only safety not necassary on the 1911 is the palm safety.
    You are incorrect.

    Unlike a Glock, the XD's striker is fully cocked; the trigger only releases it, which is why XD's are considered SAO weapons.
    There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH

    ...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper


    There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm

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