This seems like a bad idea maybe you guys have some advice

This is a discussion on This seems like a bad idea maybe you guys have some advice within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have a Beretta Bobcat in .22lr i use for backup or edc. I have a Taurus 9mm slim that is generally my edc. I ...

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Thread: This seems like a bad idea maybe you guys have some advice

  1. #1
    Member Array Lanner's Avatar
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    This seems like a bad idea maybe you guys have some advice

    I have a Beretta Bobcat in .22lr i use for backup or edc.
    I have a Taurus 9mm slim that is generally my edc.
    I was going to buy a Beretta px4 subcompact in .40.

    Heres the bad idea part. These all have manual safeties. Please lets not debate manual safeties, I like them and its what I am used to.

    The problem is the beretta subcompact you sweep UP to make go hot and Down to go for safe. This seems contrary to everything that makes sense and that I would practically be asking for an ND given that my muscle memory is trained one way.
    What do you guys think?

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    JD
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    A carry mode for a DA/SA gun with decocker/safety is to be carried hammer down, safety off in the same fashion of other DA guns.

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    One carry mode is to carry with the safety off, but that's not always such a good option either.

    If you are conditioned to flipping the safety down, a la 1911, I would stick with that platform unless you want to change all your guns to the S&W style. Not to cause a war on semantics, but I tend to refer to thumb safeties and downward flipping safeties as 1911 style and upward flipping safeties as Smith & Wesson style.

    The S&W style safety tends to work very well from a holster where the safety is flipped off as part of grasping the gun. The kicker is, it takes a lot of repetition to build the muscle memory. The advantage to doing it this way, one of them anyhow, is that it forces you to use a high hand grasp. The high hand grasp is conducive to helping to control recoil.

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    Last edited by BikerRN; August 30th, 2010 at 01:18 PM. Reason: typo

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    cj
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    I'm with the 'stick with a single manual of arms' camp. I personally like safeties, however have moved away from carrying with one...but the manual of arms of a down-sweeping while drawing and pushing out doesn't hurt if there's no safety there...but COULD be a problem if a down-sweep might turn a safety ON, so I stay away from that style...and the only gun I've ever gotten rid of had exactly that.

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    Member Array Lanner's Avatar
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    I dont think I want to move everything to a SW style system as that would be replacing 2 guns to get one.

    I also really like a manual safety and I am used to it so the option of carrying safety off doesnt really interest me.

    Guess im looking for a different gun now.

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    I agree with the manual of arms similarity idea.....you've practiced with 2 others....don't mix it up with one that has a different safety....IMO
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    Member Array Lanner's Avatar
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    I am thinking of maybe another Taurus. I have had good luck with Taurus and the Mellenium Pro in .45 sounds like a good idea.
    More firepower, still a nice small package.

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    Distinguished Member Array Ghettokracker71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    I agree with the manual of arms similarity idea.....you've practiced with 2 others....don't mix it up with one that has a different safety....IMO
    Agreed. Seems logical, your used to flipping the one way, even with practice/training on the new weapon, you could easily goof up in a SD situation. I currently donot have a carry weapon with a manual safety. (S&W 442 snubbie revolver, Keltec p3at, or XD40SC.)

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    I think far too much is made of muscle memory and manual of arms. On many hunts, I've switched from shotgun to shotgun, rifle to rifle, and any combo thereof--all having different safties in different places and operating differently--and not once was operating any of the firearms a problem. Sure, I'd like them all to be the same, but they aren't, and to me it's no big deal.

    As long as you know what you're carrying and how it works, it should be no problem. Now if your wife put something different in your holster while you were blindfolded, and you didn't know what it was....
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    Senior Member Array jhh3rd's Avatar
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    Only your brain has memories. Muscles do not. Sorry to poop on your thread, but I can't stand that term any more. I owe you one.

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanner View Post
    problem is the beretta subcompact you sweep UP to make go hot and Down to go for safe.
    I do like safety's that you click down like a 1911, but........On most guns, making the lever point down the barrel is "shoot". Also, think of the red dot, not as "Stop", but "Danger".

    I do wish they would make them all consistent, but that's not going to happen any time soon.

    (and that's why I like decockers, but that another topic)

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanner View Post
    I dont think I want to move everything to a SW style system as that would be replacing 2 guns to get one.

    I also really like a manual safety and I am used to it so the option of carrying safety off doesnt really interest me.

    Guess im looking for a different gun now.
    Springfield XD40sc. It has a grip safety and a trigger bar safety. The weapon cannot discharge (firing pin block) unless the trigger is pulled while these opposing safety mechanisms are depressed (which is the natural firing position). No manual safety switch to worry about flipping, but it's not going to go off unless you grip it and pull the trigger. One might argue that it doesn't have a safety, but I feel it does. The block keeps the firing pin from moving unless or until the two safety mechanisms are engaged by the grip and the pull. I feel very safe with it.

    The Bersa Thunder 9 Ultra Compact is a 9mm with a de-cocker and safety and is DA/SA. The safety sweeps down. I carry chambered, de-cocked, and safety off. The hammer rides about a quarter inch from the firing pin and cannot hit it unless the trigger is pulled all the way back. Very safe to carry it with the safety off. Not sure if they have a .40 version.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I think far too much is made of muscle memory and manual of arms. On many hunts, I've switched from shotgun to shotgun, rifle to rifle, and any combo thereof--all having different safties in different places and operating differently--and not once was operating any of the firearms a problem. Sure, I'd like them all to be the same, but they aren't, and to me it's no big deal.

    As long as you know what you're carrying and how it works, it should be no problem. Now if your wife put something different in your holster while you were blindfolded, and you didn't know what it was....
    Muscle memory is real. I'm a hunter and hunting is a lot less stressful than a life or death situation. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a carry weapon unless it's operation is second nature to me.

    Example unrelated to handguns: I'm a police officer and my duty belt had been set up the same way for roughly 10 years. My handcuffs were on my right side behind my handgun. I had made numerous arrests and had always reached back for my cuffs. So about 2005 I moved my cuffs up next to my buckle on the right side so that I may access them with either hand. Shortly thereafter, I had made an arrest with some resistance from the suspect. My automatic (muscle memory) reaction was to go behind the gun for the cuff (enter Oh $#%&) and I had to quickly recover and grab my cuffs from the front. Not a huge deal, but could have been worse involving a handgun.
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    Muscle Memory is real. It's why you can ski, play soccer, ride a bike, whatever after years of not doing it, and be proficient in it again very quickly.

    The idea of sweeping up to safe the weapon would I think completely confuse my.

    The XD is a good idea, I like the idea of the grip safety. I think I will have to read more about that, the bersa thunder and I think another Taurus maybe the millenium pro in .45 or 9mm since I think I am selling the slim to my little brother who is just terribly accurate with that gun and loves it.

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    Senior Member Array Warmon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanner View Post
    I These all have manual safeties. Please lets not debate manual safeties, I like them......What do you guys think?
    What's your max budget? What are you looking for?..higher capacity?..a bigger hole?, both?.more accuracy?...etc. From where you are now, it looks like you may want something higher capacity that can be worn OWB. If your budget is on the lower end of the scale, you can find some very good deals on a 3rd gen Taurus 24/7 in whatever caliber you like. If your budget will allow, there is the H&K USP Compact and the CZ 75 Compact. You could also check out a CZ P-07 that is convertible between decocker and manual safety....also very affordable.
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