I need a more shootable pocket gun
This is a discussion on I need a more shootable pocket gun within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have been carrying my ruger LCP in a uncle mikes number #1 pocket holster when I am un-able to carry my EDC glock 26. ...
August 30th, 2010 06:57 PM
I need a more shootable pocket gun
I have been carrying my ruger LCP in a uncle mikes number #1 pocket holster when I am un-able to carry my EDC glock 26. While I love the light weight and thinness of the gun that makes it perfect for pocket carry there's one thing that I just can't get over.
I can't shoot it. The same things that make it great for pocket carry work against me as well. Because of the recoil (and horrible sights and trigger) I have very little faith that I could place 2 rounds on a surface anything less then that of the broadside of a barn.
I've done all the usual stuff. I've got plenty of trigger time behind it. I've done plenty of dry fire practice with it . I just can't shoot it. Because I can't shoot it I have no faith in it which means it pretty much worthless to me as a carry gun.
So here I am looking for a new pocket gun. From a auto perspective I have looked at the sig p238, Kahr, etc. Pretty much the usual suspects when it comes to pocket pistols. I'm thinking my best bet is going to be to look at a pocket revolver. I also already know that the majority of people are probably going to suggest a J frame. So I guess my question is this. Does anyone have any suggestions for a pocket revolver OTHER then a J frame? I'm looking for as small as I can get without going below .38
-It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...
August 30th, 2010 06:57 PM
August 30th, 2010 07:05 PM
I tried to pocket carry a J frame. Still have it in fact, but it never gets carried. Only way I could fit it was in large cargo shorts, in the regular pocket, not the side one. Jeans, no...Slacks, no...pretty much nothing. Ended up IWB carrying it. Now I have a pm9 and LOVE IT! I highly suggest either that or a P380 which is even smaller. Depending on the size of your pockets, you might want the .380.
Forgot to say that I shoot non sanctioned IDPA with my PM9...and I'm not that far behind guys with full size glocks, sigs, etc.
Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
August 30th, 2010 07:14 PM
You may need to go to an IWB holster. I guess I'm lucky- I'm a big guy, and my pocket gun is my Glock 26. I'm able to carry the 26 in my right front pocket, using a Desantis "Nemesis" pocket holster. The gun doesn't make a very prominent bulge, and the only time that it was noticed was by a coworker, who knew that I carried, and also was a gun owner (thinking about getting her CCW). I have no problems with it, and carry it in jeans, cargo pants, and Dockers.
"We are the people our parents warned us about!" J. Buffett
August 30th, 2010 07:35 PM
Some of today's pistols marketed for concealed carry purposes have just gotten too small and light.
“No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”
Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893
August 30th, 2010 08:17 PM
Don't think there is a revolver smaller than a J frame. The J frame "is" the smallest revolver size. I can't pocket one either. I can't pocket my PM9 either. But I can the LCP. It takes trigger control and you have to work at it. But I understand if you've tried, and it's just not working. I found part of my initial problem with this gun is because of it's small size, I'm putting too much finger in the tirgger. I had to back out and pull straight back. I'm still working on it. Good luck on your hunt. I would lean toward the Sig 238 probably. I'm kinda interested in those myself.
Glock 26 XD9sc
Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP
August 30th, 2010 08:33 PM
I'm lucky. Being raised on pinto beans and corn bread means all my pants have big pockets. I pocket carry my XD40sc at times with no problem. My S&W 442 is no bigger than my keys and weighs less. Please look at the Bersa Thunder .380. It's not quite as small as the LCP and comparables, but it is a smooth, easy, accurate shooter (hence the trade-off). It's not large or heavy, but not as small as the LCP. You just have to find the right balance between size, weight, capacity, recoil, sights, and accuracy.
I thought I'd like an LCP until I shot one. Felt like an M80 going off in my hand. Couldn't hit squat. It was just way too small for my hand.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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August 30th, 2010 08:34 PM
You might give a Ruger LCR a shot. The trigger is much better than a J frame, and it is lighter by about 1.5 ounces. You can get one from the factory with laser grips, which really helps to shoot such a small gun. I've got one with a boot grip and front night sight, and it's fairly easy to get hits at realistic self defense range.
However, the fact of the matter is, if it's light and small enough for pocket carry, it will never approach a compact or full size gun for shootability. My LCR kicks hard with defensive ammo, harder than any pocket .380 I've ever owned, including the LCP and a P3AT. J frames also buck pretty hard with +P stuff. Depending on your hand size and geometry, small lightweight .38's can be annoying or downright punishing.
The one pocket pistol that I have heard good things about, as far as easy shootability, is the Sig P238. This is likely due to the pistol's weight (15 ounces) and size, combined with good sights, a single action trigger and a fairly anemic caliber to begin with. (.380) I've not shot one myself, but I've talked to people who have, and they love them.
Slow is smooth.....smooth is fast.
August 30th, 2010 08:37 PM
Squawker...any chance we could get a pic of you pocket carrying a G26? I often see posts like this and I wonder what is different about this person from me. There is NO WAY I could pocket carry a G26. I have a bulge I dislike when I pocket carry my P380 in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. You say you're a big guy...I'm not. Maybe you dress baggy...I don't. So I'm sure it has to do with those sorts of factors. I've just always wanted to see how this works out for the people who could do it.
Rollo...I've got a P380 for pocket carry and I love it for that. The biggest reason I went for the P380 over something like the LCP, was the full sized combat sights...night sights, at that. I'm sure it's just as snappy as the LCP...but you mentioned sights specifically, so I wanted to throw that out there. As of right now, every pistol I own has the same Trijicon night sights on them....same sight picture no matter which pistol I'm holding.
Kimber Tactical Ultra II, Kahr PM45, Kahr PM9, Kahr P380
August 30th, 2010 08:38 PM
in the semi world it sounds like the SR9 compact and the 709/740 taurus would be right up your ally, In the wheel guns I really like the new S&W bodyguard 38.
Last edited by Dragman; August 30th, 2010 at 09:39 PM.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women
August 30th, 2010 08:46 PM
I've had some range time with a Kahr PM9 and it shot well. Much more forgiving than a Kel-Tec with less snap and bite, and it has adequate accuracy - the shots go on target. If I wanted a mousegun I'd go with a Kahr.
"It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."
August 30th, 2010 08:50 PM
I had a guy in a class with me that had a new 238 - he was in the bay next to me so I could get a good look at his targets. As an LCP owner (not using it that day), I was really impressed with his accuracy. He used it from a CBST and it dissappeared into his midsection.
There was a 10th Mtn post about how he approached shooting with the LCP to get good accuracy. I wish I could remember what he said because I would like to try it again.
August 30th, 2010 08:54 PM
Agree about the large pockets. I pocket carry my S&W 442, and used EDC my p3at in the same pocket. I've never thought about attempting to stuff my XD40SC in my pocket, lol thanks for the idea though.
Originally Posted by BugDude
Anyway, I can vouch for the Kahr pistols. I used to have a Kahr Cw9, I traded my FIRST p3at in on it, and it was an awsome weapon. It got stolen unfortunately.
I was surprised how easy it is to pocket carry the j-frame. I have large hands too. I'm accurate with the p3at, but at VERY short distances, with a .380ACP, I don't expect to be doing much damage period, much less from a decent distance.
August 30th, 2010 09:12 PM
My favorite .380 for carry is my SIG P232. I have a P3AT, but the shootability of the P232 is much better for times when I can accommodate the larger pistol (best .380 I know of, period). Haven't gotten my hands on a P238 - yet.
If your heart's set on a revolver, I believe the Charter Arms .38's are a tad smaller than a J-Frame (someone will correct me if I'm wrong). I have an ol' Undercover, and my Mom has an alloy-frame Off-Duty, and both have been fine guns (at a little over half the price of a S&W).
August 30th, 2010 09:13 PM
Unfortunately any handgun that is small enough to comfortably carry in the pocket is not going to be fun to shoot. I would suggest the Keltec P32, but you do not want to go smaller than .38 caliber. Perhaps if you use a hogue slip on grip the recoil might feel better.
Police Defensive Tactics, Firearms, Carbine Rifle and Taser Instructor
NRA Life Member
It is better to have your gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it!
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August 30th, 2010 09:15 PM
In my best imitation of "Lurch" from The Addams Family TV show..."YOU RANG?"
Originally Posted by cammo girl
Some suggestions for the LCP - the pinky extension should be mandatory. It dramatically changes the shoot-ability of this little pistol. It turns a 1 1/2 finger grip into a firm 2 finger grip.
As with all pistols, I find it best to use the pad of my trigger finger (not the joint) and make sure to pull straight back.
I would also suggest the excellent Crimson Trace laser, due to the difficulty in picking up the sights, especially in low light. You can paint the front sight - base coat of white nail polish, plus two coats of florescent red model paint.
Finally, you can stage the trigger - pull it until it almost breaks, re-align your sights, and then finish the trigger pull. With practice, this becomes very fast.
The mechanical accuracy of these little pistols is amazing - I posted a target with multiple mags into one ragged hole at 7 yards, rapid fire. It just takes some practice - if I can do it, so can anyone else.
A revolver is probably not the answer, Rollo - if anything, they kick even more. I know some folks suggest an aftermarket recoil spring for the LCP - I have not done that...I figure Ruger chose the recoil spring they did for a good reason.
The Sig 238 is supposed to be softer shooting than the LCP - I have not shot one personally. I like that the 238 locks open when empty, and that it has real sights. I do NOT like the thumb safety, nor the idea of a SA cocked and locked in my pocket - that's JMHO.
I like the LCP so much that I'm really thinking of getting a third one, and carrying two of them for my EDC - one in each pocket. For less weight than one Glock, I can carry two pistols, and have easy access with either hand. And they're discreet, which is a must for me. I have no concerns about the .380 stopping someone, as long as you use ammo that penetrates and put the bullets where they matter.
Hope this helps somewhat!
NRA Life Member; Range Safety Officer
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger LCP (2), LCR, Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
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