Kahr P380 - Initial Range Test - FAIL

This is a discussion on Kahr P380 - Initial Range Test - FAIL within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ccw9mm I'm sure I could buy/sell/buy until I find something other than a lemon , which might well be the next Kahr ...

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Thread: Kahr P380 - Initial Range test - FAIL

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    I'm sure I could buy/sell/buy until I find something other than a lemon, which might well be the next Kahr purchased, but who's to say.
    I'd LOVE to pick up some PM9 lemons on the cheap and compare them to my stellar example. I'd like to see exactly what's different. I'm sure I could get them to run.

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  3. #32
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    I too owned a Kahr with light strike problems. The Kahr striker design seems to have a "just enough" quality to it. Just enough impact energy, or just enough protrusion. I've long thought that the shallow primer dimples on all the Kahrs I've owned demonstrate a shorter stroke than almost every other brand of gun I own. Perhaps some built in over engineering would solve a large number of QA problems. A little longer striker or different shape, a little more spring may go a long ways to making customers happy.

    When they work right they are exceptionally good carry guns, and when they don't they are very frustrating, mainly due to the high price and expectation of quality. I hope your P380 is fixed. It is a gun with great potential, too much to give up on... yet.

  4. #33
    Member Array DocGlock's Avatar
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    If you're going to avoid a weapon because you see posts of bad range reports/failure, you're never going to buy another weapon of any sort, any brand, any price.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Kahr is a company who's guns need to be taken on a case by case basis.

    Mine didn't pass the test.

    I know of another gun, a CW-9, that went round for round with my Glock 19 at a Tactical Response pistol class in 2009 where the little thing ate a case of ammo over the course of 2 days.

    When you buy a Kahr, if you think you are going to be GTG right away, you are kidding yourself.

    They can be fine guns...or they can really suck.

    Get a case of ammo, start doing LOTS of drills with the gun to really run it, and find out.

    However, to the people who say "Mine if great after X00 rounds..." I would like to counter with this - were you just shooting the gun, or were you RUNNING the gun?

    How did it handle during fast reloads?
    Did the mag catch start getting to the point it was dropping the mag?
    Did is jam when you did an overhand graps on the slide when you reloaded from slidelock?
    How does it draw for you?
    How controlable is it when you need to make fast shots, and how accurate is it for you when you need to make an accurate shot?

    In short...did you put the gun through what it would have to face if you REALLY need it...

    Or did you just press the trigger a lot, make some holes in stuff and burn ammo?

  6. #35
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    I too owned a Kahr with light strike problems. The Kahr striker design seems to have a "just enough" quality to it. Just enough impact energy, or just enough protrusion.
    Some of you guys must have some really bum Kahrs to have these kind of striker problems. A good way to test the striker, firing pin, etc in a pistol is to take a regular wooden pencil and drop it down, eraser end first, into the barrel. Obviously, be sure it's unloaded first. Point the gun towards the ceiling and pull the trigger. My PM9 will almost launch the pencil up and out of the barrel, but not quite. In fact, my Glock 19, which has always been my most reliable pistol, only makes it jump up about an inch or so. By far the "weakest" of the test, but it always works, so it doesn't bother me. My 1911s will damn near stick the pencil in the overhead if it's sharpened.

    Have any of you detail stripped the slide and dropped the just striker in the channel without the spring? If so, how far did it protrude past the breech face? It should be a good, noticeable amount. The stock spring has PLENTY of power. I'd check three things. 1) striker channel is clear of debris and ANY oil/grease, 2) the striker is completely smooth, no burrs, etc. and 3) is the hole in the breech face actually large enough to let it get all the way through? It might not have been drilled properly during machining.

  7. #36
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Did is jam when you did an overhand graps on the slide when you reloaded from slidelock?
    I have over 3500 rounds through my PM9 and it will FTF/C the first round manually when racking the slide like that sometimes. Is it a problem? NO, because EVERY SINGLE OWNER should be aware of that fact since they should have read the darned manual. Kahr says to use the slide release to DROP the slide when chambering the first round....works every time. EVERY OWNER should know this up front when "running" their pistol. I can slingshot my well broken in PM9, but I have to "grip it and rip it". Doing the overhand GRASP just doesn't work that well in this design because it's too easy to ride the slide. It's not a 1911 or other larger gun with a much heavier slide with more inertia. As for "running" my PM9, it did fine over a weekend of shooting during an advanced class here at Gunsite. It's a great gun, primary or as a BUG.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawk60 View Post
    As for "running" my PM9, it did fine over a weekend of shooting during an advanced class here at Gunsite. It's a great gun, primary or as a BUG.
    Your gun works...but how many other people didn't test it and are carrying it on reputation alone?

  9. #38
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Your gun works...but how many other people didn't test it and are carrying it on reputation alone?
    Don't know and don't really care. That is THEIR problem if it fails at time of need because they didn't take the time to ensure a carry gun was reliable. It's not anyone's job other than their own to test and take care of their OWN potentially lifesaving equipment. Worrying about it would be as useless as worrying about the condition of a fellow jumper's parachute. It's their responsibility, as it is mine, to ensure everything regarding personal equipment is A-OK.

  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Some of you guys must have some really bum Kahrs to have these kind of striker problems.
    Yes, unfortunately so. That's the main point of almost every Kahr quality thread we see. They produce both great guns and also lemons and the difference between which is which is unfathomable until after one pays the price. If a light strike problem isn't a design flaw or production error, then what is it? I've owned many striker fired pistols and the only ones to deliver a high number of light strikes are the Kahrs. I can't recall any hammer fired pistols having this problem. To me, this indicates a common QA error, seen in a high percentage of their production, that has yet to be corrected.

    My PM9 will almost launch the pencil up and out of the barrel, but not quite.
    Hmmmm... I doubted this statement when I read it, but to be fair I just took three of my Kahrs, the three newest Kahrs, (strongest springs), and tried your eraser down test. The pencil barely moves. Maybe an inch. Nowhere near leaving the barrel. Hmmmm??? Maybe lead side down, but the eraser down test has never worked on any gun I've tried. Never.

    When Kahr figures out how to eliminate this nagging problem, they will have many more happy customers and their reputation will improve. I say that as a Kahr fan, but a practical fan who faces the reality of frequently seen complaints, some of which I've experienced first hand in the eight Kahrs I've owned.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawk60 View Post
    I have over 3500 rounds through my PM9 and it will FTF/C the first round manually when racking the slide like that sometimes. Is it a problem? NO, because EVERY SINGLE OWNER should be aware of that fact since they should have read the darned manual. Kahr says to use the slide release to DROP the slide when chambering the first round....works every time. EVERY OWNER should know this up front when "running" their pistol. I can slingshot my well broken in PM9, but I have to "grip it and rip it". Doing the overhand GRASP just doesn't work that well in this design because it's too easy to ride the slide. It's not a 1911 or other larger gun with a much heavier slide with more inertia. As for "running" my PM9, it did fine over a weekend of shooting during an advanced class here at Gunsite. It's a great gun, primary or as a BUG.
    With all due respect, this IS a problem IMHO, because it is a manual of arms that is markedly different than most other pistols out there. Most instructors, self included, teach the overhand method for good reason - it is easier to do under stress, and it works regardless of where or how large or small the slide release is. It works reliably with all pistols, except for Kahr.

    If you want to accept that trade-off in return for the perceived advantages of Kahr's design, then fine - go for it. However, it would take most folks who have trained in the overhand method a lot of training to remember to "do it differently" with the Kahr...and I doubt most would remember while under stress.

    Lest you think I'm only picking on Kahr - I passed on the Walter PPS because of the location of the mag release. Different manual of arms = bad news while under stress.

    Back to Kahr - what happens if your slide closes on you? Can you reliably load it from a slide closed position?

    Point is that Kahr has some quirks related to their design and/or QC. Most folks who buy these pistols are not aware of these quirks until after they buy the gun. If nothing else, hopefully folks reading these comments who might be considering a Kahr can go in with eyes open.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Back to Kahr - what happens if your slide closes on you? Can you reliably load it from a slide closed position?
    Yes you can. All eight of my Kahrs have loaded reliably from slide closed as well as slide open. The Kahr is a little more suseptible to a problem if the slide is not released. Riding the slide, even a little can be problematic. It's not that you can't slingshot a Kahr... it's just that there's little room for error.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    Yes you can. All eight of my Kahrs have loaded reliably from slide closed as well as slide open. The Kahr is a little more suseptible to a problem if the slide is not released. Riding the slide, even a little can be problematic. It's not that you can't slingshot a Kahr... it's just that there's little room for error.
    If I need to defend my life, I want a gun that gives me plenty of "room for error." Combat isn't like competition, or a sterile range. I have no place in my defensive inventory for guns that must be manipulated "just so" in order for them to function. JMHO.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  14. #43
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    Maybe lead side down, but the eraser down test has never worked on any gun I've tried. Never.
    You have got to be kidding me. Somehow, you are flat out doing it WRONG, which is a bit amazing as I can't see how anyone could screw it up.

    Any one else here with a 1911? Try it and see. I'll bet that pencil launches right up and out of the barrel. Watch your eyes!

    Even my widdle biddy Kel-Tec P3ATs give the pencil a healthy jump.

  15. #44
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I have no place in my defensive inventory for guns that must be manipulated "just so" in order for them to function. JMHO.
    I think I'll keep my HIGHLY reliable and accurate PM9 that can be sling shotted OR dropped from slide lock. You're familiar with the tap, rack, bang drill, right? Or is that an erroneous assumption on my part? Even if it were to hang on cambering the first round, the simple "tap on the magazine" takes care of it EVERY TIME. Or, simply shoot to slide lock, reload and hit that HUGE slide release that works 100% of the time.
    Last edited by SIXTO; September 2nd, 2010 at 09:06 AM. Reason: removed childish comments

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array ripley16's Avatar
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    Seahawk60, Your erasers must be much more dense than mine. I tried a T9, TP9 and a K9 and none propelled the pencil more than a inch or so. Lead side down is another story of course.

    10thmtn, Can't argue with the logic of redundant reliability. This is why I wish Kahr would address these problems. I'm a little reluctant to carry one also.

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