Kahr P380 - Initial Range Test - FAIL

This is a discussion on Kahr P380 - Initial Range Test - FAIL within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Seahawk60 Well, goody for you. I think I'll keep my HIGHLY reliable and accurate PM9 that can be sling shotted OR dropped ...

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Thread: Kahr P380 - Initial Range test - FAIL

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawk60 View Post
    Well, goody for you. I think I'll keep my HIGHLY reliable and accurate PM9 that can be sling shotted OR dropped from slide lock. You're familiar with the tap, rack, bang drill, right? Or is that an erroneous assumption on my part? Even if it were to hang on cambering the first round, the simple "tap on the magazine" takes care of it EVERY TIME. Or, simply shoot to slide lock, reload and hit that HUGE slide release that works 100% of the time. Pretty difficult, huh?


    I have owned 3 Kahrs. Yes, I'm aware of tap rack. It's one of the reasons I got rid of my Kahr. With a full mag of every JHP I tried, it would jam when I did a tap rack. Doing another tap would sometimes get the stuck round to feed - sometimes not. Thus a tap rack became a tap-rack-tap...yet another quirk with Kahr's manual of arms. A quirk that could add time to a situation where time is short.

    Most trainers (self included) would advise consistency in training. If you only run Kahrs, then that's not an issue.

    Enjoy your Kahr.
    Last edited by SIXTO; September 2nd, 2010 at 09:06 AM.
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  3. #47
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Enjoy your Kahr.
    Thanks! I will and continue to do so.

    [
    Last edited by SIXTO; September 2nd, 2010 at 09:07 AM. Reason: removed more childish comments

  4. #48
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripley16 View Post
    Seahawk60, Your erasers must be much more dense than mine. I tried a T9, TP9 and a K9 and none propelled the pencil more than a inch or so. Lead side down is another story of course.
    I have dense erasers?

    Honestly, I don't know. It's just an old No. 2 pencil I've had lying around for years. In fact, the eraser even has a dimple in it from the strikes. Try doing it with a pistol with an external hammer. You'll definitely see it then. My striker fired guns definitely give the pencil a noticeable jump, but nothing like my 1911s. This is a good test because I've used it several times to test the firing pin after bypassing Swartz safeties with series 70 firing pins.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seahawk60 View Post
    You have got to be kidding me. Somehow, you are flat out doing it WRONG, which is a bit amazing as I can't see how anyone could screw it up.

    Any one else here with a 1911? Try it and see. I'll bet that pencil launches right up and out of the barrel. Watch your eyes!

    Even my widdle biddy Kel-Tec P3ATs give the pencil a healthy jump.
    I did it the other night with a buddy's Beretta 96D and I now have a small hole in my bedroom ceiling from the lead point. Nothing a little white-out won't fix.
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  6. #50
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I have to agree with what someone else here said. Read the manual, follow the instructions, and know what to expect. Failure to follow the instructions and the weapon not performing does not mean the company or the weapon itself is crap. It might mean it is different than what you are used to and is not a good fit for you, or it doesn't meet your expectations, but that's different from "x is junk." This is the same issue I see with the Taurus 709. Mine has worked perfectly through 1200 rounds, but I followed the instructions to a T after reading the manual first. I accepted the limitations of a small light gun designed for CC and did not expect a WWII battle proven roll it around in the mud and fire 20,000 rounds without cleaning it design. If that's what I expect, then I need to research and find something that was designed as such and not call one that wasn't a piece of junk. Just because someone takes a knife to a gun fight doesn't mean the knife is junk. It means the made a bad choice for what they needed.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I did it the other night with a buddy's Beretta 96D and I now have a small hole in my bedroom ceiling from the lead point. Nothing a little white-out won't fix.
    Told ya...watch out with those external hammer pistols!

  8. #52
    Ex Member Array Seahawk60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I have to agree with what someone else here said. Read the manual, follow the instructions, and know what to expect.
    That would have been me regarding Kahr stating IN THE MANUAL to "drop" the slide with the slide lock lever when chambering the first round.

    Failure to follow the instructions and the weapon not performing does not mean the company or the weapon itself is crap.
    +1 Well said...

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    Failure to follow the instructions and the weapon not performing does not mean the company or the weapon itself is crap.
    It's important to note that this is fine for the one issue of bullet position with respect to chambering of a round, as per the Kahr instructions. But the variety of jamming that occurs outside the scope of that caveat is unexplained by user failure to follow the manual's guidance.

    Otherwise, you're right: user failure as cause of issues has nothing to do with the gun or the company.
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  10. #54
    Member Array gglass's Avatar
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's important to note that this is fine for the one issue of bullet position with respect to chambering of a round, as per the Kahr instructions. But the variety of jamming that occurs outside the scope of that caveat is unexplained by user failure to follow the manual's guidance.

    Otherwise, you're right: user failure as cause of issues has nothing to do with the gun or the company.
    Correct. Which is why I stated that if you are willing to put up with a pistol that can only be reliably chambered from slide lock by using the slide release lever, in order to have a smaller/thinner/lighter gun - then go for it. Me - I will not tolerate a pistol that can only be reliably loaded in this manner. I want the option of the overhand or "slingshot" method. YMMV.

    Failure to follow directions has no bearing on the OP's light strike issues. It had no bearing on the issues I experienced with my 3 Kahrs either - jamming due to frame flex, barrel peening, slide peening, loose slide back, failure to go fully into battery...just for a partial list.

    As far as comments about familiarity with different weapons go - I certainly recommend being familiar with as many different weapons systems as possible. You never know what you may need to pick up and use. However, I strongly recommend consistency with your carry gear - weapons with the same manual of arms, carried in the same manner in the same place on your body...to the greatest extent possible.

    I carry "point and click" weapons only - Glocks and Ruger LCPs. No thumb safety, mag release in the same place. Same trigger pull every shot. Same manual of arms - fire until empty, insert new mag, rack slide, fire. The LCP does not lock the slide open when empty, but that is not an issue, both because I train to reload it after firing any number of shots as soon as possible (tactical reload) due to the lower capacity, and because it can be reloaded easily by racking the slide - just like the Glock.

    I would not carry a SAO with a thumb safety one day, a DAO another, and a DA/SA when the mood struck me, either. This isn't about Kahr per se - it's about how you approach your training and equipment selection. Some folks like to carry different guns, just because they like them. IMHO, that is setting yourself up for failure while under stress.
    Last edited by SIXTO; September 2nd, 2010 at 09:08 AM. Reason: removed the fan of flames
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  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    boy, I need my boots or something to listen to all of this. Too many trying to convince too many of things they have too little facts about. One guys gun or even 50 threads don't mean anything. Lot's of bandwagons rolling around in here.

    Bottom line is that guns are like shoes, they fit you but not me or the other way around. Also, they're manufactered. That means "in mass", which means they all put out bad ones. Everyone's mileage will vary.

    About the most you can figure out on the internet is general trends and those are sketchy at best. What I see are guys making broad judgements with little to back it up. See it all the time with all the different makes. Your gun doesn't constitute anything, nor does mine. I've had 4 perfect Kahrs but that doesn't prove anything. One bad one or 8 doesn't prove anything either. It can give you a gut check if you read for weeks but even then there's are "movements" out there that love to bash certain guns or makers like our friends at Taurus. :)

    I will say Glocks are probably statistically more reliable from the anectotal evidence you see on the web but if you're picking a Kahr it's becasue of the superior DAO trigger, no external controls, great sights and one of the slimmist, most ergonomic shapes being made. I have 4 of them and they're all perfect and you can slingshot or use the slide release all day long with utter reliability.

    It's sad people get so worked up trying to convince folks over the internet of their position on this gun or that when there's not a lot of facts, statistics or even logic behind their position. Lighten up guys!

    And guess what, the one gun I had the most problems with out of the box was a Ruger SP101 Revolver! Imagine that but I know it's one of the best guns out there.

    I do know that Kahr, Ruger, and others have excellent customer service. Send the thing in, let them fix it and it's all good! And it's crazy to think you have to shoot thousands of rounds to confirm reliability. Been shooting almost 40 years and I've learned that if you're going to have problems, it doesn't take long. But it is a good idea to try the different ammo!

    I'm shorter guy who's thin and has small hands. The Kahrs work for me but you've got to work it out for you. So relax, have fun, enjoy!

    Would I take one to war? Nope, but then I didn't have to conceal anything Uncle Sam ever issued :)

    Gideon

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
    boy, I need my boots or something to listen to all of this. Too many trying to convince too many of things they have too little facts about. One guys gun or even 50 threads don't mean anything. Lot's of bandwagons rolling around in here.
    I will say this: For myself, my goal is to present a data point for consideration, not to convince anyone of anything or to create (or jump on) a bandwagon.

    You're correct when you say that it matters not that a given gun has worked for this or that person. What matters is only whether it works for the person in question. People's experiences are what they are, for each of them, and statistically speaking the experiences are relevant and material. Doesn't really matter what the statistics of the larger population might be, as those guns aren't the one in hand being expected to perform. At best, those numbers are (a) ones we don't have and (b) only an indication of the probability of having one work or fail out of the box. Nothing more.

    Agreed, that your "statistical" results (four out of four) and my results (three out of three) aren't very relevant to a given person looking to make a decision. They're merely individual data points in the vast pool of Kahr pistols sold, each of which matters not a whit in the larger scheme of things. Neither do they have any real bearing on the overall statistical probability a given person is going to get a gem or a lemon. Data points are what they are, nothing more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon View Post
    It's sad people get so worked up trying to convince folks ...
    No arguments here. Folks would get more mileage out of data points by treating them as such, instead of attempting to create statistical implication where none exists.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  14. #58
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    No argument from me. I posted my experiences for what they are. I freely, and repeatedly, have stated that others have had better luck with this brand than I have.

    There are training implications to the Kahr manual of arms, as stated in their user manual. That was my main point. If you are willing to train around them, or if you are lucky enough to get one of their pistols that can be operated more like other pistols, then fine. As long as you are aware of potential issues and training implications going in to the purchase decision.
    Last edited by JD; September 2nd, 2010 at 11:49 AM.
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  15. #59
    Distinguished Member Array pirate's Avatar
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    I am 2 for 2 with two home runs with my Kahrs a PM and CW40, neither has had any issues at all as in Zero, with many hundreds of rounds through each....they have been superb in every way.
    When I leave the home port:
    S&W 642 Airweight, Ruger SP 101, Colt Detective Spec., CZ RAMI, Kahr PM9, Kahr CW40, S&W Model 10-7, Glock 30, 19, and 26, Browning Hi Power, CZ82, Colt Commander, Dan Wesson PM7, Ruger LCP

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
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    I am 2 for 2 with Kahr also, and the reason I am posting this is because I let a really good P9 go because of all the negative issues I had read about Kahr. I stayed away from the brand for several years all the while yearning for that pistol. I decided to take a chance recently and purchased a Kahr CW9, and not to get into round counts or performance drill results, suffice it to say I am quite happy with it.

    Bottom line is this: while there are a lot of negative reviews out there on the internet, there are a whole lot more of Kahr owners who never post, that have had and continue to experience good reliability with their pistols. Could I buy a Kahr pistol tomorrow and get a lemon? Sure I could, but Taurus, S&W, Sig, Beretta, other brands, and even Glock owners have had problems. Don't let negative reviews sway you one way or the other. If you are unhappy for any reason with any firearm then get rid of it and choose another, perhaps one from a different brand. If on the other hand you have got a good one and you are worried that you might experience problems in the future because others with the same model have - STOP! Don't get rid of a good pistol and have regrets. It will cost you both in money and peace of mind.
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