Poor CS at Sig, unbelievable!

Poor CS at Sig, unbelievable!

This is a discussion on Poor CS at Sig, unbelievable! within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In June I bought a Sig P238. It malfunctioned from day one, failing to extract at least once on every mag. After 200 rounds, I ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Texas solo's Avatar
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    Poor CS at Sig, unbelievable!

    In June I bought a Sig P238. It malfunctioned from day one, failing to extract at least once on every mag. After 200 rounds, I sent it back to Sig on 06/16/2010. Three weeks later I receive the gun back with the extractor "adjusted", new mag and recoil spring. Here's where it gets interesting:

    After repair, it extracts every time, but the last round fails to eject, getting hung up and the case mouth is crunched. I inspected cases that did eject, and they too had damaged case mouths. I called Sig and spoke with Mark.

    Mark said the new recoil spring is +2 pounds, and a little too tight. His advice was to lock the slide open for 24 hours, and another 24 hours if necessary, but not more than 48 hours. I followed his advice, although I know that a spring weakens from repetition, not being locked open. No surprise, I still have the same problem.

    Today I called back, spoke to Scott. Scott said that Mark "doesn't know what he's talking about. There is only one spring for the Sig P238 to date, but a new one is coming out." The new one will last about 2000 rounds, and the current one is only good for 200. Thus my problem. What???
    I reminded him that I had just received the gun back from them...WITH A NEW SPRING! And, I did not have this case mouth crunching, failure to eject problem before they "fixed" the extraction issue. His response was that it must be a defective spring, and he's sending me 3 more. After I wear them out, call back to receive the new spring that should be available by then.

    So what am I to believe now? I've had a factory Sig repair done, which left me with a malfunctioning pistol. I've received advice from two different CS reps which totally contradicts itself, and I have one CS rep telling me that another doesn't know what he's talking about. Wow, talk about inspiring confidence in a brand! At this point, I think I need to accept that I got screwed with this lemon of a pistol. Sig can't fix it, so I'm stuck.

    I'm writing one last letter to everyone I can find at Sig, via snail mail, explaining everything that has transpired. There's no excuse for the CS I've received. Unless they respond favorably, I will trade off this POS and never recommend a Sig product to any of my customers again. I realize that anyone can produce a lemon now and then, but to BS the customer and not fix it is unacceptable. In the end, I will cost Sig more $$$ in lost sales than they cost me. Just ask Taurus

    Rant over.
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"
    Ted Nugent


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Got (sig) ?? J/k ; )
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  3. #3
    Member Array bpang1's Avatar
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    Kind of weird that Sig would sell a gun that could only handle 200 rounds on a spring...I would just return it for something less fragile.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    I've never owned a Sig, but just from the things I have read that is surprising. They have a better reputation than that. I've never heard of a gun in which a spring will only last 200 rounds (or only 2000 for that matter). If the person that said that indeed knew what they were talking about, that certainly wouldn't inspire any confidence. In any event, I hope you get it worked out.
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  5. #5
    Member Array Texas solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    They have a better reputation than that. .
    They HAD a better reputation than this.
    Why did they just lose the Gov't contract to the ATF and others?
    I've sold lots of Sigs based on their reputation, without ever having owned one myself. Now I feel guilty.
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"
    Ted Nugent

  6. #6
    Senior Member Array deafdave3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas solo View Post
    In June I bought a Sig P238. It malfunctioned from day one, failing to extract at least once on every mag. After 200 rounds, I sent it back to Sig on 06/16/2010. Three weeks later I receive the gun back with the extractor "adjusted", new mag and recoil spring. Here's where it gets interesting:

    After repair, it extracts every time, but the last round fails to eject, getting hung up and the case mouth is crunched. I inspected cases that did eject, and they too had damaged case mouths. I called Sig and spoke with Mark.

    Mark said the new recoil spring is +2 pounds, and a little too tight. His advice was to lock the slide open for 24 hours, and another 24 hours if necessary, but not more than 48 hours. I followed his advice, although I know that a spring weakens from repetition, not being locked open. No surprise, I still have the same problem.

    Today I called back, spoke to Scott. Scott said that Mark "doesn't know what he's talking about. There is only one spring for the Sig P238 to date, but a new one is coming out." The new one will last about 2000 rounds, and the current one is only good for 200. Thus my problem. What???
    I reminded him that I had just received the gun back from them...WITH A NEW SPRING! And, I did not have this case mouth crunching, failure to eject problem before they "fixed" the extraction issue. His response was that it must be a defective spring, and he's sending me 3 more. After I wear them out, call back to receive the new spring that should be available by then.

    So what am I to believe now? I've had a factory Sig repair done, which left me with a malfunctioning pistol. I've received advice from two different CS reps which totally contradicts itself, and I have one CS rep telling me that another doesn't know what he's talking about. Wow, talk about inspiring confidence in a brand! At this point, I think I need to accept that I got screwed with this lemon of a pistol. Sig can't fix it, so I'm stuck.

    I'm writing one last letter to everyone I can find at Sig, via snail mail, explaining everything that has transpired. There's no excuse for the CS I've received. Unless they respond favorably, I will trade off this POS and never recommend a Sig product to any of my customers again. I realize that anyone can produce a lemon now and then, but to BS the customer and not fix it is unacceptable. In the end, I will cost Sig more $$$ in lost sales than they cost me. Just ask Taurus

    Rant over.
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  7. #7
    JD
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    I'm having the same issues with crunched cases, check your extractor for clocking, mine is on it's way back (had the shipping label for over a week, just been busy) tomorrow.

    Sig needs to get these issues fixed pronto.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas solo View Post
    They HAD a better reputation than this.
    Why did they just lose the Gov't contract to the ATF and others?
    I've sold lots of Sigs based on their reputation, without ever having owned one myself. Now I feel guilty.
    There may be a connection. I'm not familiar with Sig at all other than what I've seen on this forum.

    My personal experience brand familiarity with handguns is limited to Ruger(3), Springfield(1), Smith(2), Bersa(1), and Taurus(1) and several lesser known brands of 22s. Fortunately, I've never had the first issue with any of them...and I put 3,000 to 5,000 rounds down range per year. I guess I've been lucky. I've read a lot of bad posts about Taurus pistols and CS, but I have 1200 flawless rounds through my 709 and my expectations have been far exceeded regarding the weapon and never needed their CS.

    I did have a very bad experience with a Henry rifle (bought 2 at the same time, one lever and one pump, both in 22 magnum). One was sweet and the other a jam-o-matic. Sent it back, returned months later "fixed" and the problem was worse. Sent it back again and months later they sent me a new rifle. Took it out of the box and the forward stock was cracked all the way up the length of it. Never fired that one and traded it in on a Ruger SP101 from the dealer I bought it from and he dealt with Henry. Never had a problem out of the lever. Ended up buying a 1948 Remington pump 22 (in long rifle) and it functions flawlessly. Go figure.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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  9. #9
    Member Array Flint Ridge's Avatar
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    Sounds like a bad P238, you aren't the first and not the last, sorry. What was the "build date" on yours? Send it back to Sig so they have to pay for their mistakes. They either fix it or you are one step closer to replacement. Keep in mind mine took, 1,400 rounds of pure hell and 4 trips back to Sig to get a new one. I am suprised by nothing you stated. Standard Sig CS BS.

    200 rounds on the recoil spring - probably right, others have died before that.

    Welcome to the club.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    I read the similar bad experience thread on the Texas CHL forum. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37463

    Didn't think too much about it, and really still don't. I have listened to folks trash Taurus for a long time but have never had any bad experiences with mine. I treat them right most of the time and they have performed well for me.

    It doesn't take too much searching to find threads about bad Rugers, Gen 4 Glocks or others that have kaboomed, Keltecs, Kimbers, S&W's of some sort, lots about Taurus, and now Sigs. They are tools/machanical devices whatever. They will break or not function flawlessly at some point in their life. Toyota was number one in auto sales, well until they started having recalls a year or so ago, now they seem to have the wheels or something falling off their company.

    Do I still have a Sig in the plans for a future gun, yep. Will I still continue to carry my Taurus guns, yep. When and if they let me down and fail to function I will have to reassess them then. I am not willing to discount a product or a company just because they have some hicups. Ok, there are some guns that I would never purchase but they are the real POS guns.

    Nothing is perfect all the time, well except me.
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  11. #11
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    I've never heard of a gun in which a spring will only last 200 rounds (or only 2000 for that matter). If the person that said that indeed knew what they were talking about, that certainly wouldn't inspire any confidence.
    - Unfortunately, a lot of these micro guns are very hard on spring life. Rohrbaugh recommends changing their spring after 300 rounds. I know that Kahr recommends changing theirs after 1500 rounds. IMO, it's not a big deal since new recoil springs are relatively cheap.

  12. #12
    Member Array Texas solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deafdave3 View Post
    Customers? You have a store in San Antonio?
    I don't own it, but yes. I've been there 3 years since retiring as a sales and marketing manager.
    If there's one thing I know, it's the value of customer support. And, what not providing the same can cost a company.
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  13. #13
    Member Array Texas solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    I read the similar bad experience thread on the Texas CHL forum. http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=37463

    Didn't think too much about it, and really still don't. I have listened to folks trash Taurus for a long time but have never had any bad experiences with mine. I treat them right most of the time and they have performed well for me.

    It doesn't take too much searching to find threads about bad Rugers, Gen 4 Glocks or others that have kaboomed, Keltecs, Kimbers, S&W's of some sort, lots about Taurus, and now Sigs. They are tools/machanical devices whatever. They will break or not function flawlessly at some point in their life. Toyota was number one in auto sales, well until they started having recalls a year or so ago, now they seem to have the wheels or something falling off their company.

    Do I still have a Sig in the plans for a future gun, yep. Will I still continue to carry my Taurus guns, yep. When and if they let me down and fail to function I will have to reassess them then. I am not willing to discount a product or a company just because they have some hicups. Ok, there are some guns that I would never purchase but they are the real POS guns.

    Nothing is perfect all the time, well except me.
    I don't expect Sig, or any gunmaker, to be perfect all the time. But, I Do expect CS to be 100%. That's what this is about.
    I no longer recommend Taurus either. But it's only because of their lousy CS, which I have personally experienced.
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"
    Ted Nugent

  14. #14
    Member Array Texas solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    I'm having the same issues with crunched cases, check your extractor for clocking, mine is on it's way back (had the shipping label for over a week, just been busy) tomorrow.

    Sig needs to get these issues fixed pronto.
    Thanks for the idea JD. Will do. I guess I hadn't considered it because Sig JUST REPLACED IT!
    If that's the issue, I'll be even more mad that I had to tell them what's wrong!
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"
    Ted Nugent

  15. #15
    Member Array Texas solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flint Ridge View Post

    Welcome to the club.
    Thanks for the invite, but I don't care for membership.
    I won't wait as long as you did. I'll dump this POS first, take the loss, and make Sig pay dearly for it in the long run.
    "I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders"
    Ted Nugent

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