Life without the Ruger LCP

This is a discussion on Life without the Ruger LCP within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So far so good, I am pocket carrying a Kahr PM9 and S&W 642, I am done with the 380 caliber for now, just not ...

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Thread: Life without the Ruger LCP

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
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    Life without the Ruger LCP

    So far so good, I am pocket carrying a Kahr PM9 and S&W 642, I am done with the 380 caliber for now, just not enough for me in the energy and penetration for self-defense.

    I will alternate between the PM9 and 642 in the IWB appendix or pocket carry. I usually only carry one gun.

    Most 380 rounds are below 200 ft/pounds at the muzzle, there are +P rounds but the Ruger was not rated for them. If I get another 380 it will be +P rated.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    Not to start a caliber war, but from what I've seen, the numbers between the .380ACP and .38special are very similar, especially out of a 2" snub revolver.

    I just bought a S&W 638 today that I hope my wife is more accurate with than her LCP.

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I guess that I kinda gave up on the LCP, too; for the 442. With Heavy +P, from Buffalo Bore, out of a 2" barrel produces about 379 ft. lbs.

    That's a significant increase from the average 200 ft. lbs. from standard pressure .380 (info from Buffalo Bore). The hottest +P .380 from Buffalo Bore, gives you slightly less than 300 ft. lbs.

    All that, and my 442 doesn't malfunction, and I can shoot it better.

    How does your 642 compare to the LCR?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    VIP Member Array peckman28's Avatar
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    I can understand the rationale. You need to go with what you're comfortable with. I have a .380 Beretta Cheetah. I like it because it packs 14 shots in a fairly small package with minimal recoil. That being said, if I'm in an area (not this state, sadly) where I can carry, the Ruger LCR is going with me. The .38 special is fairly similar out of a short barrel, but you also get a 125 grain bullet with it and the +p spec is no slouch and definitely moves it beyond .380 specs. When at home, the Beretta stays in the long gun safe while the .357 magnum revolver (loaded with .38 +p) stays in the quick access box, and when I get another box the .40 is going in there for me (the revolver is for my wife, who has no shooting experience). Hope your new setup works for you.

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    Member Array bpang1's Avatar
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    Say what you will about muzzle velocity and ft-lbs or whatever...I would still NOT want to be shot by a .380.

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    I admit that when I carry the LCP it is extremely easy to pocket carry in the type of clothing I wear because of the size and weight. I do NOT carry it because I am a fan of the .380 cartridge. If they made something else in the same exact size that packed 9mm (no, the pm9 is NOT the same size) that was affordable I would carry it.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpang1 View Post
    Say what you will about muzzle velocity and ft-lbs or whatever...I would still NOT want to be shot by a .380.
    Oh, I agree with you 100%. I'm just voicing my opinion. I'm no .380 basher; neither am I a ballistics expert. I understand the logic of the OP, because I'm walking kinda the same line.


    Rollo, I just saw your post after I posted. I would have to admit that the LCP, and it's predecessor the KelTec P38T, are probably the most concealable pistols out there.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    While some are going smaller with their CCWs, I'm going the other way. I started with a snub 38, then a couple 9mm, on to a 40 sub compact, a .357 Magnum revolver, and an now carrying a full size 1911 .45ACP. Since I figured out HOW to conceal large handguns, I lean more towards them with my 442 as a secondary. It all depends on situation and attire.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpang1 View Post
    Say what you will about muzzle velocity and ft-lbs or whatever...I would still NOT want to be shot by a .380.
    I woudln't want to be shot by a slingshot. However it still wouldn't be my first choice for a weapon.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  11. #10
    Member Array damien12g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I woudln't want to be shot by a slingshot. However it still wouldn't be my first choice for a weapon.
    the whole idea of a carry weapon is to allow you to get away. Pop someone, anyone, within 7 yards of 3-5 rounds of .380...you'll have time to get away. Youre not a cop and not a SWAT team member...run the opposite direction of trouble.

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    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damien12g View Post
    the whole idea of a carry weapon is to allow you to get away. Pop someone, anyone, within 7 yards of 3-5 rounds of .380...you'll have time to get away. Youre not a cop and not a SWAT team member...run the opposite direction of trouble.
    My idea of a carry weapon is to neutralize a life-endangering threat when I have no other alternative. You may find yourself in a situation where you only have an opportunity for 1 shot before the BG returns fire at close range. That being said, if I have but one opportunity to get off the first shot (i.e. the threat has a firearm drawn on me, but is very distracted looking around nervously and I'm just waiting for that split second of his inattention), I prefer that one shot to be something in the realm of .45ACP or .357 Magnum. Neither of them are instant neutralizers unless they score a CNS hit, but the sheer energy absorbed by the body would be somewhat disorienting for a second or two. That bit of time may make the difference in the BG not getting a shot off, you gaining cover, you getting off a second shot, etc. Just hard to tell.

    In placing myself in your scenario above, at 21 feet, if I'm firing 3 to 5 rounds at someone in self defense so I can run, it would be difficult to justify my life being in danger unless they also have a gun. They're not going to just stand there and let you get off 3 to 5. Both parties would be on the move and slinging lead.

    I'm not starting a caliber war or anything, they're all only as effective as the person's ability with the weapon. I've just experienced a trend over time of going from smaller compact carry guns to larger carry guns. It wasn't really a conscious decision, so I guess my subconscious logic was one of "if you find yourself in a situation where you have no other choice but to shoot or die, what do you want to be shooting?" Each person has to answer that for themselves, several factors go into each individual's answer, and any given number of people's answers will be different. I guess that's why there are so many guns on the market today.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
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    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damien12g View Post
    the whole idea of a carry weapon is to allow you to get away. Pop someone, anyone, within 7 yards of 3-5 rounds of .380...you'll have time to get away. Youre not a cop and not a SWAT team member...run the opposite direction of trouble.
    I disagree. That may be the point of a carry weapon for YOU however the point of a carry weapon (or any weapon for that fact) is to end the threat. If that means escape...fine. If that means a dead BG...fine.

    "Pop someone, anyone, within 7 yards of 3-5 rounds of .380...you'll have time to get away."

    Simply not true. Hopped up on drugs or adrenaline attackers have been able to take 3-5 rounds of 9mm,40,45,etc. However don't get me wrong. I think 3-5 rounds of ANYTHING is going to be enough to make all but the most determined of attackers re-think pressing their attack.

    I look at it like this. I find it funny that people say "shot placement is king over caliber" but then the majority of us here would not carry a 22lr for self defense. Why? high velocity 22lr will penetrate a skull. It's extremely easy to shoot. Why not carry one?

    As much as we all would like to believe that there's no such thing as "Stopping power" the bottom line is there is. It's why guys pistol hunting bear in Alaska (Or just carrying a pistol to defend from bear) prefer the .454 as opposed to a 9mm. The bottom line is that some rounds are simply better at killing things then others.

    The gun community came up with the concept of shot placement being king in response to people thinking a bigger bullet means they are safer. We all know that isnt true. You can be shooting S&W 500 but if your not hitting what your aiming at it's the least effective round ever made. This is why I think that the shooting community has begun to move away from "Shot placement is king" more towards "Carry the largest caliber your comfortable with". Why? Because a larger caliber is more effective IF (and ONLY if) it is put on target.

    This is why I carry a 9mm. It's the largest caliber that I'm confident I can put multiple round on target with. I've tried .40 and I've tried .45. I like them all. But at the end of the day I can drop three rounds center mass in less then a second with my glock 26. I can't even do that with my 1911 however I am sure there are guys/gals out there that can and I say Hoorah to them. If I could do it with a .40 I would carry a .40. If I could do it with a .45 I'd carry a .45.

    I am not bashing .380. I am simply saying that if someone made a 9mm that was exactly the same size and weight as the ruger LCP I would carry it assuming I could shoot it well. If couldnt shoot it well I would stick with my LCP because 3 round of .380 in a BG is more effective then 3 rounds of 9mm not in a BG.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    My idea of a carry weapon is to neutralize a life-endangering threat when I have no other alternative. You may find yourself in a situation where you only have an opportunity for 1 shot before the BG returns fire at close range. That being said, if I have but one opportunity to get off the first shot (i.e. the threat has a firearm drawn on me, but is very distracted looking around nervously and I'm just waiting for that split second of his inattention), I prefer that one shot to be something in the realm of .45ACP or .357 Magnum. Neither of them are instant neutralizers unless they score a CNS hit, but the sheer energy absorbed by the body would be somewhat disorienting for a second or two. That bit of time may make the difference in the BG not getting a shot off, you gaining cover, you getting off a second shot, etc. Just hard to tell.
    Ah yes, the "one shot" debate. Over the past year this has been the internal debate I have had with myself in regards to considering changing for my g26 to a g36. I like .45 I REALLY do. My problem has always been that I can't put multiple rounds on target as fast as I can 9mm. For me, in the situation you described the 9mm (for the reasons I personally picked it) losses it's advantage of fast follow up shots. In a one shot scenario I would much prefer the .45 for the reasons you described. Grrrr, darn it BugDude, know I want a 36 again...
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  15. #14
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    Regardless of the caliber debates, the LCP is the one gun that I can count on be with me anywhere. It's often a bug, but it's always there. I held a PM9 yesterday, with bad intentions of buying it. But it's in a whole other class than the LCP. I decided that the G26 fills that role. Prior to the LCP there were times that I didn't carry when I could have. Not any more.
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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    Regardless of the caliber debates, the LCP is the one gun that I can count on be with me anywhere. It's often a bug, but it's always there. I held a PM9 yesterday, with bad intentions of buying it. But it's in a whole other class than the LCP. I decided that the G26 fills that role. Prior to the LCP there were times that I didn't carry when I could have. Not any more.
    Yep, theres pretty much NO excuse to be not be carrying the LCP. Well, unless it not legal where you are. Or your naked...
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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