Question for people with lasers >>>>>>>

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Thread: Question for people with lasers >>>>>>>

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
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    SR9c Crimson Trace at factory settings.

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  3. #17
    Member Array Coltman 77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varmiter View Post
    The following is a short article I wrote a number of years ago to help correct some misconceptions people have about laser sights. The sighting in numbers here are only examples.


    *********************************
    To really understand a laser sight, one must first accept the fact that it is a “Line Of Sight” device, and as such, operates in exactly the same way as “Iron Sights”, or a “Telescopic Sight”.

    The Telescopic Sight:
    By their construction, and the fact you must look through them, they are mounted (generally) on the top of the weapon. Also, there is a known distance between the centerline of the bore and the cross hairs (center of the objective lens) of the scope. For purposes of this discussion, let assume this distance is 1.5 inches, and the firearm is sighted in at 50 yards. When the bullet leaves the barrel, it is 1.5 inches BELOW the line of sight and is gaining altitude (in reference to the line of sight) and will climb 1.5 inches in the 50 yards. Past 50 yards, the bullet is still climbing until it reaches apogee and then it begins to fall. Depending on caliber, weight of the bullet, muzzle velocity etc, the bullet will once again, at some point well down range be zeroed in. Lets just say, in this case, it is at 150 yards. So in this case, the bullet/rifle/scope are zeroed in at 50 yards, and 150 yards. These are the ONLY two points where the line of sight “Cross Hairs” and the bullet coincide. The exact same applies to a laser, (mounted in the same position as the scope) or Iron sights. The difference with iron sights is that they are mounted considerably closer to the centerline of the bore. Also, if the iron sights are set to 50 yards, the second zero point will be different because of its decreased distance to the centerline of the bore.

    Keeping the above in mind, we now introduce and compound the errors (as we see them) with the introduction of the Laser Sight. There are many systems on the market nowadays for mounting lasers on both rifles and handguns. Lets explore just a couple.

    We have our laser mounted BELOW the bore centerline, either on a rail, or clamped etc. In this case, again there is a measured distance between the centerline of the bore and the laser. Again, lets assume this distance is 1.5 inches. When the bullet leaves the barrel, again assuming we are sighted in at 50 yards, the bullet is DESCENDING, and will descend 1.5 inches at 50 yards. THIS WILL BE THE ONLY DISTANCE THAT THE WEAPON WILL BE ZEROED. At ranges greater than 50 yards, the POI will be lower and lower.

    Now, lets take a laser mounted below the centerline of the bore, and off to one side. LaserGrips come to mind on this one. Now the errors are compounded not only in Elevation, but Azimuth as well. Once sighted in at 50 yards, that will be the only point, both in elevation and azimuth where the POI and the laser meet.

    On handguns, especially at self defense distances, a laser sight may well be worth the time and effort. But before deciding to lay out your hard earned cash, it is wise to have a basic understanding of just how they work, and their limitations.

    I have a Kimber 1911 with LaserGrips. I have gone to great lengths to set the laser to parallel the iron sights. That way, I never have to worry about how the sighting may be different between the two. The laser is set, and treated as an iron sight. At self defense ranges, this will be good enough.

    Chris
    Great information. Thanks Chris.
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  4. #18
    cj
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    I shoot for getting the laser parallel to the barrel and to avoid any crossing at various ranges. The discussion that covers this for me is at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYMG_CFCcs
    marcclarke likes this.

  5. #19
    Member Array brobar's Avatar
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    LG-405 CT grips for my S&W 642... I've left them at the factory default which I believe is just over 16 yards. The compensation between the 16 yards and the 10 yards I was thinking about setting them at is very very minimal so I just left 'em alone.

    I want to get the LG-446 CT grips for my XD9sc... but since it adds to the overall length of the profile as well as the width... I'm really not sure. I'd like to try 'em first!

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    ArmaLaser on a Kel-tec P-3AT sighted at 21 feet.
    Check out the last page if this...
    http://www.mouseguns.com/Defensive%2...20Accuracy.pdf

    Bobo
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  7. #21
    Member Array Ceapea's Avatar
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    CT grips on my 4" GP100, G22 and both S&W j frames. All zeroed at 10 yards. My 1 7/8" 36 is a 2" grouping gun at 25'-30'...I couldn't do that consistently (really, never) before the CT grips.
    Not that you want everything in a nice tight little group for SD, but it's nice to know that it can be done.
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  8. #22
    RKM
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    If it's within a 2" vicinity at 7-10 yards, I'm happy. I don't have CT grips on my MK40 for the range, but for self defense shooting. Same goes for my USP and TLR-2. I usually take the TLR-2 off when I go to the range so I don't have to clean it.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array tokerblue's Avatar
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    I have 4 Crimson Trace products and specifically chose them because of the instinctual activation.

    I sight them in for 25' and find that 50' is almost identical.

  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBVAGUY View Post
    Thanks for everyone's replies. One more question, I know most self defense scenarios are 7-10 yards even less; for those of you sighting your laser at anything greater than these distances how bright are your lasers at these distances ?? Can you even see them ??? Thanks again and God Bless
    Yes^ at 25 yards I can still see the red dot.

    Crimson Trace LG-660 for My M&P40, my father has the compact model for his M&P9compact.

    We sight them in for 25 yards they are only off by about an inch at point blank range.... the farther the target is the less it is off target. (but an inch at point blank range COM shots aren't going to matter much. IMO)
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  11. #25
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    Crimson Trace sighted in at 15 yards, because I do a lot of pistol shooting at that range, and it covers almost all of the distances in my home (20 yards would be the max distance, but furniture would keep anyone from actually being that far away). Firing at COM at distances shorter than that the slight offset won't make enough difference to matter.

  12. #26
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    I use the LaserLyte on my G21 and G22. I zero it in at 7 yards and at any reasonable SD distance, it will be close enough to being spot on to work. Upside to this set-up is it is relatively inexpensive for a laser sight. Downsides are you have to turn it on and off on top of the slide and blocking it with a finger is near impossible while using a normal grip on the gun. In a "fast draw and shoot" situation, the position of the switch could result in the laser not being available. Additionally, if you shoot while trying to turn on the laser, you are likely to injure your hand.
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  13. #27
    Member Array rogerdodger's Avatar
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    I set mine for 18' which is the distance from my chair to the front door.I figure any greater distance, I would not shoot, since this is my home defense weapon.

  14. #28
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    I have 3 Crimson Trace lasers on home and carry guns. Worth their weight on gold.

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