Considering upgrading my pocket gun

Considering upgrading my pocket gun

This is a discussion on Considering upgrading my pocket gun within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I recently changed my carry gun from a Glock 26 (Which I still love and will never get rid of) to a M&P45C. Simply put, ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Considering upgrading my pocket gun

    I recently changed my carry gun from a Glock 26 (Which I still love and will never get rid of) to a M&P45C. Simply put, I wanted a .45. Call it what you will but I just wanted something that made larger holes then my 9mm. Maybe it's a false sense of security but I do have more faith that the .45 will put down a threat more reliably then the 9mm and that makes me feel better.

    About 8 months ago I purchased a Ruger LCP. It is my maxpedition/pocket carry gun. It gets carried back and fourth to work and that's its main purpose. To fill in when I can't carry one of my larger guns. It works well in that role. It is very small and light and flat. I have however never been a big fan of .380 and since I just upgraded my EDC because I didn't have much faith in 9mm it stands to reason I have even less faith in .380. And since .380 and .38 are pretty close ballisticly that leads me to .357. Funny thing, didn't some company just bring out a "pocket" .357?? :)

    So first the down side. 5 shots as opposed to 7. Much slower to reload. A good deal heavier (12 ounces vs 19). .357 in a gun that light is going to be about as much fun as a root canal. On to the up side.... Um.... Its a .357! IN YOUR POCKET BABY!!

    All joking aside 5 rounds of .357 is a LOT of fire power for a pocket gun and that's really why I am considering making this change. Am I crazy? What do you think? I value your opinions.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...


  2. #2
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    357 is a lot of bang in your pocket. Here is my take on it; Snubs are fantastic self defense weapons. They are classic design that have been utilized for ages by lawmen, business men, crooks and housewives alike. They do carry well in your pocket or any where else for that matter.
    But, our generation has all but forgotten the snub in favor of the semi auto. We have snubbed the snub. So, it will take some retraining and planning to get yourself used to reloads and general marksmenship with a snub. They are a whole new animal for the shooter that has grown up on semi autos. I have spent this past summer really learning my 442. Its been a chore, but very rewarding.
    Anyway, if you are willing to accept that a snub is going to take a new level of commitment to learn, they can be a fantastic investment. A 357 in a pocket size gun is going to amplify your shortcomings as a shooter. My 38 certainly did. But now, my 442 is my go to deep concealment gun.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  3. #3
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    I'm looking at an LCR357 or an SP101 as my next CCW. I figure if I can carry more yet still have an effective caliber I'm better off. There are just some situations where the G30 is to much and I'd prefer an LCR.

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    You're not crazy. Otherwise....you'd be on some other forum, and likely not have internet access let alone be out of your room for very long without supervision.
    The 45ACP....something I will never be without. 9mm....again, something I don't want to be without.
    The caliber ordeal and the concealment. You've been here long enough. You hit what you aim at and you make good hits, and you hit until the threat is neutralized. What you use to do this matters not....only that you have a goal in mind (survival). Anything is better than nothing or becoming a victim. To me...the caliber ordeal isn't important. What is important is your will to survive with any means you have available to do this. every day I come to this forum and I'll see someone asking if what they have chosen for personal defense is worthy. Worthy of what? I ask to myself. To have a firearm in hand when an armed criminal attacks sure beats pepper spray by a long shot IMO. 22lr will have a longer lasting and immediate effect IMO. Don't over-think things, and don't get caught up in the magic bullet theory. Statistics only prove something from a sample, and samples are taken at random and most likely when those samples prove the point of the author or the one taking the samples for specific reasons and to convey a self-served point. Your "faith" lies only with you. Do what you will, and I wish you would quit doubting your decisions or second-guessing them. I know you'll find peace soon.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Devilsclaw's Avatar
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    I have a Charter Arms .357 snubbie. I've never had nerve enough to shoot it with .357 yet as it only weighs about 19-20 oz I suppose, but is IS very concealable. I also have the 38 Sp. +P LCR, and have never felt naked to the minions of evil when carrying it either. I have always thought the +P loadings in 125 gr. JHP were a fine compromise between the .357 Mag and standard anemic .38 Special. A little more than halfway to the Magnums, but still a whole lot more controlable in small revolvers.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsclaw View Post
    I have a Charter Arms .357 snubbie. I've never had nerve enough to shoot it with .357 yet as it only weighs about 19-20 oz I suppose, but is IS very concealable. I also have the 38 Sp. +P LCR, and have never felt naked to the minions of evil when carrying it either. I have always thought the +P loadings in 125 gr. JHP were a fine compromise between the .357 Mag and standard anemic .38 Special. A little more than halfway to the Magnums, but still a whole lot more controlable in small revolvers.
    Interesting point. I have heard some of the .38 +p loads are pretty nasty. I've also heard the LCR in .38 is a fine weapon. Honestly, the trigger on my LCP might have more to do with why I don't have much faith in it then the caliber does. No matter how hard I try and how much I practice I just can't get multiple rounds on target accurately with it. I've put a lot of range time in with it and done a lot of try fire practice but I just can't get the hang of that trigger when it comes to rapid fire. When I was gun shopping with my ex a year or so ago I tried the trigger on the LCR and was quite impressed. Maybe it's not a issue of caliber so much of shootablity...

    Edit - Also, holding on to the LCP during rapid fire strings proves to be quite difficult. Something a bit more substantial might help remedy that.

    Edit 2 - Oh yeah, and the sights suck
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array Devilsclaw's Avatar
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    I believe the Federal 125 Gr. JHP was what they used to call the "FBI Load". That is what I carry, as well as the newer Federals with the post in the middle. They pack a LOT more punch than standard .38 Sp. EDIT: I should add, they also do this with lower pressures than 9mm Luger.

    I have never fired an LCP, but have heard those complaints before. Too small and too long trigger pull to control for more than one shot.

    I have similar issues with Kahr's CW9, and it's a lot bigger than the LCP!

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Some thoughts...

    The LCP will fit in ANY (man's) pocket. The Snubbie will fit in SOME pockets.

    Did you paint the front sight to make it more visible? Base coat of white nail polish, plus 2 coats of red/orange florescent model paint.

    The CT laser also helps greatly in sighting.

    Holding onto the LCP is helped greatly by using the finger extension on the mag - are you using that?

    Rent a snubbie .357 before you buy. You might be...surprised. Putting rapid multiple hits on target with a .357 snubbie is difficult for most folks, especially if you have a light weight one. Do not assume one hit will stop the threat.

    Ballistics - .380 JHPs get 11-13 inches in gel (after going through 2 layers of denim) while FMJ gets 16-17. The FBI wants 12-15. Load your .380 with JHP/FMJ and you have both penetration and expansion covered.

    If your LCP is reliable, I would keep it.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Some thoughts...

    The LCP will fit in ANY (man's) pocket. The Snubbie will fit in SOME pockets.

    Did you paint the front sight to make it more visible? Base coat of white nail polish, plus 2 coats of red/orange florescent model paint.

    The CT laser also helps greatly in sighting.

    Holding onto the LCP is helped greatly by using the finger extension on the mag - are you using that?

    Rent a snubbie .357 before you buy. You might be...surprised. Putting rapid multiple hits on target with a .357 snubbie is difficult for most folks, especially if you have a light weight one. Do not assume one hit will stop the threat.

    Ballistics - .380 JHPs get 11-13 inches in gel (after going through 2 layers of denim) while FMJ gets 16-17. The FBI wants 12-15. Load your .380 with JHP/FMJ and you have both penetration and expansion covered.

    If your LCP is reliable, I would keep it.
    True, The LCP is EXTREMELY easy to carry.

    No, I just used a dab of white out on the front sight. I'll giver the nail polish/model pain a try

    Good point. I had not really considered a laser but it would help with the worthless sights issue.

    Valid point

    Shopping for a better .380 load could make a difference. Right now I'm using a crappy hollow point that was the only thing I could find around town.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    Shopping for a better .380 load could make a difference. Right now I'm using a crappy hollow point that was the only thing I could find around town.
    See testing at www.GoldenLoki.com. I alternate Hornady Critical Defense (11 inches) with WWB FMJ-FP (~16 inches).
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Array GoBigOrange's Avatar
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    I say scrap the LCP. If you can't put rounds on target during rapid shooting I would say it's time to change. I sold my p238 due to reliability issues and bought a Ruger LCR because as others have mentioned the reliability of a revolver is unbeatable. They just work.

    It doesn't carry as easy in the pocket but it's still very light and surprisingly accurate. +p loads are a handful and I'm trying to get better with rapid shots but it's not easy. This will come with practice though.

    I am however going to upgrade to the LCR in .357 because it's 4 ounces heavier. Yes, I WANT that additional weight. I have a feeling that this additional weight will allow me to shoot .38's much easier. If it turns out that .357 is controllable then I'll carry that but if not I am perfectly comfortable with .38+p. Some may think I'm odd for wanting to upgrade if I don't plan on carrying .357 but I really don't care. It makes sense to me.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    A whole lot of bad guys have been sent to the great beyond by .38 special. Just saying...

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    If you are looking for a .357 snubbie I would recommend the S&W M&P 340 with CT grips as seen here with the rest of my EDC weapons......(Glock 30sf + Microtech Ultratech)


    And here is a good article.....
    http://www.gunblast.com/SW-340MP.htm
    Colt New Agent, Dan Wesson V-Bob, Glock 19,20SF, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30SF, 36, Kahr P380 w/CT, PM9, PM45, CW9(SOLD), Kel-Tec P32, P3AT, PF9(SOLD), Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II, Stainless Pro TLE/RL II (SOLD), Rohrbaugh R9s, Ruger LCP w/CT, LCR, SP101 S&W J-Frame 638 w/CT, M&P 340 w/CT, Walther PPK/S

  14. #14
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    With a lightweight .357 snubbie, you'd better try before you buy! A .380 will do its job if you do yours. A .357 won't if you don't. Heck, I didn't even like shooting my .357 Blackhawk, even with its much heavier weight.

    As for the nail polish/flouresant paints, I'd say give it a try, even if only on a piece of metal for testing. I use DayGlo-orange model paint and it shows up well in any light that bright enough to see what I'm shooting at. If it's too dark to see the sights, I can't see what I'm shooting at either, soooo... It does appear brighter if applied over a base coat of white. A $3-4 bottle will last a lifetime.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    I've been carrying my LCR .38 and My Taurus 650 .357 for a couple of weeks now while giving my autos a break. I'd say, I actually feel pretty good about the whole thing. The LCR is just a little heavier than the LCP and true it's down a couple of rounds to the LCP, but comparatively, once you factor in the reliability of the revolver vs the auto, the round count kinda fades into the background; at least for me anyway.

    Like some have said, it's a pretty good shock to the system regarding the level of proficiency between the two platforms, but IMO easily overcome by a few trips to the range and some quality dry fire and reloading practice at the house. Not near the speed of the auto for reloads, but IMO, it just puts more emphasis on (put the shots on target and make um count). The two rounds are pretty darn close ballistically with the edge going to the .38, but for someone like myself who's kinda tired of toting two handguns everywhere no matter how light and easy, the revolver seems to be the answer. I know even a revolver can hang on a occasion, but if I was a gambling man; AND I AM, I'd say it's gonna be few and far between.

    I'll always have my .380 collection and just like my others they'll sit there and stay at the ready in the event they get the call, but for now, I feel no less prepared or defended by carrying my revolvers. I do prefer the .357 to the .38 even in .38 +p, but truthfully outa the two inch or less snub the ballistics take quite a hit. Due to that alone, I'm gonna add at least one more revolver to my list for CC and it'll be a .357 for sure. At that point I believe I'll be ready to gear down to a solid .357 magnum revolver for CC and become deadly accurate with the setup. Right now the Ruger SP101 is peaking my interest, but still keeping the LCR .357 and the S&W M&P in there too.

    Are you crazy, I'd say no. IMO, stepping way up in caliber and losing a couple rounds in the process is a fair trade off. Regardless, the .357 Magnum round outa a snub is still a .357 Magnum and will hit like a mule and sound like a cannon if you ever have to use it. My vote would be to go for it and see how you like it. I went cheap with my experiment to see if I was comfortable carrying the five round .357. So far so good. Every trip to the range confirms my confidence in the platform and the round. Soon I'll add another quality piece to launch the .357 from and call it a day.

    If Glock is Kool-aid then the Revolver must be coffee. Have a cup, you'll be glad you did.

    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

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