M&P40C Range report/pics/stuff

M&P40C Range report/pics/stuff

This is a discussion on M&P40C Range report/pics/stuff within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My apologies ahead of time. This is probably going to end up being a combination review/range report of the M&P40c and a essay about my ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    M&P40C Range report/pics/stuff

    My apologies ahead of time. This is probably going to end up being a combination review/range report of the M&P40c and a essay about my thoughts on the .40 round so it may be a bit long winded.


    I recently purchased and fell in love with my first M&P - The 45c. It's a beauty and a great size for EDC carry. The handle is longer then a normal sub compact (G26) but shorter then compact (G19) since I don't have any extra pounds around my mid section the handle of pistols tend to print pretty badly so I was quite happy when I found the 45c. It seemed like a great comprise. It works with about 75 percent of my wardrobe. I do however have some clothes that are more fitted and the shorter handle of a sub compact is easier to hide. Enter my G26. Oh wait...never mind....I just traded it for a M&P40C! :) Don't get me wrong. I think the Glock is a great gun and the thing performed flavorless but at the end of the day I shoot the M&P line better and it's just a lot more comfortable for me to hold so i made the decision after falling in love with my 45c that I would trade the G26 for a M&P9C.

    No, that isn't a typo. My intention was to trade the 26 for a 9C. However after putting my trade request up on my local gun forum a fellow PM'd me saying that he had a 40C and wanted a G26 and asked if I would be interested. Here's the thing. I'm a .40 hater. The bad part is that I was a .40 for no reason. I hadn't even SHOT one before and I hated on the round. I thought about it for awhile and came to a couple of conclusions. 1. If I am going to hate on the .40 I should probably at least shoot one at some point in my life. 2. If I don't like the 40c I can always trade it towards the 9c I originally wanted. I picked it up this morning and went straight to the range. I ran 100 rounds of el cheapo tula, 50 round of federal that came with the pistol and 50 rounds of 180g federal HST (147g HST was my load of choice in 9mm).

    Range report.

    The gun was everything I came to expect from the M&P line. The gun is accurate, comfortable to hold and reliable. The trigger (just like the one on my 45c) had been smoothed out by the previous owners use and was now that nice crisp break that I have come to love about the M&P's. I just shoot it better then the glock trigger. The gun had no failures.

    Recoil (The aforementioned essay on the .40 cal round)

    It's pretty much universally said that the .40 is a snappy round. I agree. It's snappier then the 9mm and snappier then the .45 I also agree with the description of the .40vs.45 recoil that the .45 is more of a push where the .40 is more of a snap. I had no issue shooting the .40 and keeping it on target. I shot triple taps at 10 yards well. Double tabs were even better. I could semi rapid fire at 25 yards and keep everything in the the 7 ring of a silhouette target. I have confidence that I could use the .40 anywhere in side of 25 yards to end a attack. All that being said I can honestly say after putting 200 rounds through a .40 that i don't like to shoot the .40. But that begs the question, Do I NEED to like shooting it?

    What I mean is this. The recoil while manageable and not horrible was (in my opinion) mildly unpleasant. Not root canal unpleasant. More...mosquito bite on your ankle unpleasant. but even though it was unpleasant I was able to use it effectively. So the reason I ask "Do I NEED to like shooting it?" when it comes to shooting a defensive firearm in a defensive scenario the pleasantness of the round is really irrelevant. Also, the round isn't so unpleasant that I wouldn't practice with it, I just wouldn't ENJOY it as much as shooting a 9mm. I wouldn't really want to put more then 100 rounds through the .40 where as I can shoot 200-300-400 9mm with no fatigue. But again, it doesn't NEED to be fun. So that brings me to what will decide if I keep the 40c or trade it for a 9c.

    I have decide if I think the .40 caliber is THAT much more effective then the 9mm. How effective is "THAT" much more effective you may ask? It has to be that much more effective that I don't mind spending 20 mins of my bi-weekly range trip shooting a 100 rounds out of a gun I don't enjoy shooting.

    DISCLAIMER - PLEASE spare me the shot placement is king, yadda blah blah yadda. I'm not a rookie. I know that no round is effective if it doesn't hit it's target. I know that all hand gun rounds are under powered. I know that no hand gun round is a 1 shot death ray. I know there is no magic bullet.

    Ok, now that we have that out of the way we can continue. So, I have done a lot of reading on the .40 . Long story short from what I have gathered the FBI compensated WAY to much after a couple of shootouts and someone came up with the idea to use the 10mm. Shortly there after someone came to their senses and said "HOLY @$&#, this is a BIT to much" and the .40 S&W was born. I know there's a lot more to then that but for the sake of time I'm sticking with the cliff notes version :)

    Is the .40 "THAT" much more effective then the 9mm? Well, the vast majority of LEO agencies seem to think so as they issue the .40 like it's going out of style. I think if NATO switched to the .40 the US military couldn't get rid of the 9mm fast enough. Those 2 things alone should probably tell me something.

    Disclaimer 2 I am NOT, I repeat NOT saying that the 9mm is not effective. I am only saying that there are a lot of calibers out there and some are more effective then others.

    That disclaimer leads me nicely in to my closing. I guess at the end of the day I am going to define "THAT much more effective then 9mm" as 30 percent. If I can find research that suggests that the .40 is 30 percent more effective then the 9mm then I will keep it. However if it is less then that I can't really justify it. I have quite a bit of faith in the 9mm loaded with my favorite 147g federal HST's and 9mm ball is fun to shoot all day. I'll put up with the .40 only if it has a measurably better chance of saving my bacon (Assuming I do my part by) if I ever have to put bullets to bad guys.

    P.S I included a couple shots with my M&P45c for size comparisons sake. Believe it or not the 1/2 shorter handle makes quite a bit of difference when it comes to printing. Most of my shirts will hide the 45c fine but some of them wont.
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    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Der Alte's Avatar
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    Keep in mind several things: 1. You are not likely to have a situation where you have to shoot a lot of shots at anytime. 2. Odds are you will never have to draw the weapon much less shoot it. 3. If you do need it for protection remember its the choice for numerous police departments and federal agencies. 4. Lastly, it has more stopping power. I think you will really enjoy it after getting used to it. I carry mine on a daily basis.
    Its a shame that youth is wasted on the young.

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    Like to shoot? I loved to shoot my .41 Magnum, but I'll admit it wasn't the caliber I'd choose for a concealed SD round, even though its weight tamed the recoil nicely.

    I was at a really (really, really) nice indoor range in Titusville, Fl, with my son this past week and got to put rounds thru his .40s and .357 Sigs. After shooting them side-by-side, I agree with you that the .40 is "snappier" than a .45, and the .357 Sig slightly more so. He had both a Glock and a SIG so I experienced both makes. I shot both equally well (or bad some might claim), although being inside did make the .357 seem noticeably louder, which I hadn't noticed at an outdoor range previously.

    He also brought his Kimber, a full-size .45 (don't know the model), and in spite of all my previous jabs at 1911s and Kimbers, it shot very well with my reloads that still make my Glock 30 choke (fail to go into battery). It does have a nice trigger, nothing I'd go ga-ga over, but "different" from my G30 and 4566 (which eats anything that fits into the mag apparently).

    I can see where a .40 (or .357) in something small and light like a G27 could be a handful, but I considered neither of them unmanageable or uncontrollable. My son did say he used a .357 conversion barrel in his G27 and admitted it was more than he cared to handle.

    If you're putting rounds where you want them with the .40 now, with a little more practice, I bet you can put them as quickly as you'd like to also. I'm a firm believer that if you can hit where you want, use the biggest stick you can. I think you'll figure out what caliber you want to carry.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I believe that you can get a 9mm barrel conversion for your .40 M&P

    That said, it sounds like your trying to talk yourself into keeping the .40, while you would much prefer that it was a 9. Ballistic theories aside, what it matters is what you want.

    I would keep the .40 for a while, and just keep an eye out for a good deal on a purchase, or trade, to get the 9c that you want.

    ETA: Here's the conversion barrel

    Last edited by zacii; November 7th, 2010 at 05:54 PM. Reason: added info & links
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I believe that you can get a 9mm barrel conversion for your .40 M&P
    That said, it sounds like your trying to talk yourself into keeping the .40, while you would much prefer that it was a 9. Ballistic theories aside, what it matters is what you want.
    Yes and no. This is the first gun I have owned that I didn't really enjoy shooting. But that's kinda what i was getting at earlier in my long winded post. A defensive gun like this doesn't really NEED to be fun. I have other guns I can shoot that are. It needs to be effective and if it's more effective then 9mm then it's a worth while trade off. If it's only marginally more effective it's not.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  6. #6
    kpw
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    You will shoot the gun more if you like shooting it. 9mm is appreciably cheaper than .40, which becomes more evident the more you shoot. The .40 is a great round. I've owned quite a few .40s and probably will again. It might be a bit more effective given top loads for both rounds. Appreciably so? Depends on your definition, but 30% better? Highly doubtful. If bullet size alone was truly that much of a factor, I'd pack a .50 GI 1911. If you enjoy shooting it, can handle it as well as a 9mm, don't mind the added cost and it gives you piece of mind with real or imagined effectiveness, it's not a bad choice.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    You will shoot the gun more if you like shooting it. 9mm is appreciably cheaper than .40, which becomes more evident the more you shoot. The .40 is a great round. I've owned quite a few .40s and probably will again. It might be a bit more effective given top loads for both rounds. Appreciably so? Depends on your definition, but 30% better? Highly doubtful. If bullet size alone was truly that much of a factor, I'd pack a .50 GI 1911. If you enjoy shooting it, can handle it as well as a 9mm, don't mind the added cost and it gives you piece of mind with real or imagined effectiveness, it's not a bad choice.
    The price difference was something that I had taken into account. While paying 3.00 a more per box of .50 rounds does suck I would be shooting it less which kind of makes up the difference lol.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    I had to finally decide that for me, every handgun for CC was going to be chambered in .45ACP. That simplifies things a lot. I'm dying to try a M&P 45C!

    I don't think you'll be happy until you get the 9c and with the HSTs, you will NOT be under gunned.
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  9. #9
    kpw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    The price difference was something that I had taken into account. While paying 3.00 a more per box of .50 rounds does suck I would be shooting it less which kind of makes up the difference lol.
    Kinda my point, you'll be shooting it less. $3.00 a box is no big deal if your finding .40 ammo that cheap. $30 a case really isn't too bad either. I average about a case of 9mm every 6 weeks or so. On top of my other costs, it's not a deal breaker but it adds up and is one consideration. I need the extra bucks for .45 ammo anyway!
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
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    Reload. I can make a box of 50 .45 for $5.50. Granted I shoot alot, last year was 24K 9mm and 18K .45, not to mention the .22's, .38, and rifles. I have a 45C with close to 28K rounds downrange and a 9C with about 20K, great guns although I've recently had problems with the 9C (needed a new recoil spring and striker, and have a dead trigger with Apex DCAEK installed).

    2 things to watch for, make sure you have the new striker, and be aware of the dead trigger issue. My 9C has been flawless up until 2 weeks ago when I started getting failure to fires and the dead trigger.

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    If I may add my thoughts. Just here me out.

    I came to the thought of when looking for a pocket pistol to carry when I couldn't IWB my Glock 26 that I wanted something that was small enough to fit my pocket but big enough to do a decent job. Then came my Kel Tec PF9. Its a 9mm which I don't think anyone will argue is a little better then the average .380 acp/.38 sp round. And it fit the job as being thin enough to fit my desired needs.

    Now, as far as comfortable to shoot....I don't think anyone is in the mind that a 9mm bullet coming out of something that thin, small, and light is exactly comfortable. And its no where near what I would call a range fun gun.

    Now, I said all that to say this....

    I don't find my Kel Tec fun to shoot at the range, but I shoot it well. For its intended purpose it fits the bill. More power then a .380 acp round and almost as compact as the normal flavors of mouse guns. If you shoot the .40 S&W well enough that you feel you can save your life with it then I say roll on Rollo!

    Disclaimer: IN NO WAY AM I NOW OR EVER IN THE MIND SET OF ITS A GOOD THING TO SELL YOUR GLOCKS!!!!!!
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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlockJS View Post
    If I may add my thoughts. Just here me out.

    I came to the thought of when looking for a pocket pistol to carry when I couldn't IWB my Glock 26 that I wanted something that was small enough to fit my pocket but big enough to do a decent job. Then came my Kel Tec PF9. Its a 9mm which I don't think anyone will argue is a little better then the average .380 acp/.38 sp round. And it fit the job as being thin enough to fit my desired needs.

    Now, as far as comfortable to shoot....I don't think anyone is in the mind that a 9mm bullet coming out of something that thin, small, and light is exactly comfortable. And its no where near what I would call a range fun gun.

    Now, I said all that to say this....

    I don't find my Kel Tec fun to shoot at the range, but I shoot it well. For its intended purpose it fits the bill. More power then a .380 acp round and almost as compact as the normal flavors of mouse guns. If you shoot the .40 S&W well enough that you feel you can save your life with it then I say roll on Rollo!

    Disclaimer: IN NO WAY AM I NOW OR EVER IN THE MIND SET OF ITS A GOOD THING TO SELL YOUR GLOCKS!!!!!!
    Hmmmm.... Very valid point and very good parallel with the stepping up from .380 to the more uncomfortable but more effective 9mm.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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    Mark your calendar...I'm willing to bet that inside of 3 months, you will regret selling your G26.

    If I'm wrong, I'll issue a public apology, and repent by marching to my local office of the Ministry of Silly Walks doing my best John Cleese imitation...
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    I purchased an M&P 40 several years ago and it if one of my favorite shooters. I usually don't carry it as I carry a 4" 1911 and shoot best (50 years) with one. Last month I wound up with a M&P 9C in a trade. I have trouble with the grip as I have large hands, BUT my wife and grand daughter love it and shoot well with it. My wife carries a PM9, but said she would maybe like the 9C for a truck gun. First choice--1911, second M&P and the rest I just love to shoot. I have Glocks, but do not fit my hand as well. My son has carried the M&P 40 as a duty weapon and now carries a Glock 22. He still prefers the M&P to shoot, but is very confident with the Glock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I am going to define "THAT much more effective then 9mm" as 30 percent. If I can find research that suggests that the .40 is 30 percent more effective then the 9mm then I will keep it. However if it is less then that I can't really justify it. I have quite a bit of faith in the 9mm loaded with my favorite 147g federal HST's and 9mm ball is fun to shoot all day. I'll put up with the .40 only if it has a measurably better chance of saving my bacon (Assuming I do my part by) if I ever have to put bullets to bad guys.
    Compare muzzle energy. Speer GDHP in .40 in 155gr has a muzzle velocity of 1200 fps. That's a muzzle energy of 496 ft/lbs which is more than 30% greater than the Speer GDHP in 9mm at 115gr and 1210 fps (that's 374 ft lbs.). The muzzle energy of the same .40 round is only 23% greater than the 9mm+P in Speer GDHP in 124gr and 1220 fps. But it's 45% greater than your "favorite 147g federal HST's" that have a muzzle velocity of 1000 fps and a muzzle energy of 326 ft lbs.

    A recent post by Tangle, Is There Any Evidence now has 264 replies. The question regards those calibers approved by most LEO agencies like 9mm and .40. I can find no evidence of a caliber that is a significant standout as a fight stopper.

    What I think is significant is that you get whatever benefits the .40 may have over the 9mm in the same size package (as frame of M&P 9, 40 / 357-sig are the same).

    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I believe that you can get a 9mm barrel conversion for your .40 M&P
    Sounds like you've researched. However, IIRC, the mag well of the 40c doesn't accommodate 9mm mags. OTH, 40/357-sig is interchangable - as I know first-hand.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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