SA, DA, DAO, DAK, SAO, Safe-Action, Ultra-Safe, LEM, SRT, mag safeties – huh? - Page 4

SA, DA, DAO, DAK, SAO, Safe-Action, Ultra-Safe, LEM, SRT, mag safeties – huh?

This is a discussion on SA, DA, DAO, DAK, SAO, Safe-Action, Ultra-Safe, LEM, SRT, mag safeties – huh? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not retired - off for the summer. I teach electrical/electronic engineering technology at a community college, but yes, I had a good time at the ...

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Thread: SA, DA, DAO, DAK, SAO, Safe-Action, Ultra-Safe, LEM, SRT, mag safeties – huh?

  1. #46
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    Not retired - off for the summer. I teach electrical/electronic engineering technology at a community college, but yes, I had a good time at the range!

    Opinions about guns go all over the place. Yesterday, I would have been pushing the Sig P229 or a Glock 17 or 19. Today, after what I was able to do at the range with the P250, I'm carrying my P250 now and just ordered a Kramer Vertical Scabbard (that's what Kramer calls a holster) in horsehide for it. I'm already seriously thinking about a P250 compact.

    But, while I'm happy as can be with the P250, some really dislike it - they just can't get past the DAO trigger. I guess what I'm saying is no matter how much I like a P250, it doesn't mean you will. I think you will. I know a lot of first time buyers that have been really pleased with it.

    Moving on, I should point this out about the P250: you can do all kinds of things with it. I bought a full size frame for $40 - no transfer required because on the trigger group is a 'gun', not the frame. I cut the dust cover back to the compact frame size, slid on a compact slide and had a 'commander' sized P250 - for $40! A full size, 17 round capacity frame with a compact length.

    Many have cut a compact frame down to subcompact size and put the subcompact slide on it. The subcompact frame doesn't have the rails, so by cutting down the compact frame which does have the rails, they construct a subcompact length with rails and a compact capacity.

    You can put a full size slide on a compact frame; a compact slide on a subcompact frame. Guys have painted them with Duracoat in all kinds of colors and patterns. The reason they are so bold, is if they completely ruin the frame, they're only out $40 and some USPS postage.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Not retired - off for the summer. I teach electrical/electronic engineering technology at a community college, but yes, I had a good time at the range!

    But, while I'm happy as can be with the P250, some really dislike it - they just can't get past the DAO trigger. I guess what I'm saying is no matter how much I like a P250, it doesn't mean you will. I think you will. I know a lot of first time buyers that have been really pleased with it.
    My father was a math professor at a state college in upstate New York so I know all about being off for the summer. He and I worked on our rental houses during the summers when the students were gone.

    I stopped by a gun store today and got a chance to hold and dry fire a P250 compact. It felt really good in my hands. It was just the right size and weight. The grip fit perfectly. I started to rethink whether I should get the P250 2SUM (full size and subcompact) or the just the compact! I also dry fired the pistol and I liked the 7 lb DAO trigger. The long pull didn't seem so long at all. But I now have a problem: NJ allows 15 or fewer capacity mags and the mag for the full size is 17 rounds! So I may well have to get the compact size.

    The sales guy also showed me a Sig P225 9mm made in Germany. I didn't know about the P225 but it fit my hand well and weighed just right too. Later I did some searches on the internet to find out more about this gun. It seems like it was the precursor to the P228 and the P229. I will stick to the P229. I dry fired several Sigs with the DA/SA and I don't like that first 11 lb pull at all after "shooting" the DAO on the P250.

    The gun shops do not carry the Sigs in DAK. I have to order them and then wait 6 weeks! Bummer.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    ...I stopped by a gun store today and got a chance to hold and dry fire a P250 compact. It felt really good in my hands. It was just the right size and weight. The grip fit perfectly. I started to rethink whether I should get the P250 2SUM (full size and subcompact) or the just the compact!
    It's a great gun.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    ...I also dry fired the pistol and I liked the 7 lb DAO trigger.
    It doesn't feel like 7 lbs does it?! And, IIRC correctly when I was more into the P250, there are now some things you can do to lighten the trigger to about 6 lbs.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    ...The long pull didn't seem so long at all.
    It doesn't bother me in the least - I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    ...But I now have a problem: NJ allows 15 or fewer capacity mags and the mag for the full size is 17 rounds! So I may well have to get the compact size.
    Don't forget you can put a full size slide and barrel on a compact frame with zero mods. So if you get a compact, you have that option.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    ...I dry fired several Sigs with the DA/SA and I don't like that first 11 lb pull at all after "shooting" the DAO on the P250.
    Exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    ...The gun shops do not carry the Sigs in DAK. I have to order them and then wait 6 weeks! Bummer.
    Well bummer kind of, I know what you mean, but try to order a Kimber that's not in stock and they'll tell you 9 to 12 months.

    S&W is $300 million behind in production - that explains why I couldn't find any M&Ps in stock locally.
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  4. #49
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    Question Kahr?

    So, Kahr calls their "Trigger cocking DAO". It's definitely not DAO, as the slide must "pre-cock" before the striker can be released by pulling the trigger... is this similar to the Glock, or the XD's USA mechansims?

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    Quote Originally Posted by vanbo View Post
    So, Kahr calls their "Trigger cocking DAO". It's definitely not DAO, as the slide must "pre-cock" before the striker can be released by pulling the trigger... is this similar to the Glock, or the XD's USA mechansims?
    I'm a new gun owner. I recently bought a Taurus TCP (738). It seems to be a similar "Trigger (semi-)cocking DAO". The hammer appears to be semi-cocked by racking the slide. I guess it is still considered DA because pulling the trigger - (1) completes the cocking of the hammer and (2) releases the hammer.

    maybe?

  6. #51
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    I never have been comfortable with cocked & locked. I love sigs 226 220 but I find all metal guns to heavy for all day carry. I love H&K USP. In summer I smart carry, I like decocked with safety. I like a long trigger pull on the first shot. I also love a short reset. The reason for different actions, individuals can find what they are comfortable with.

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    Hey OP you spelled TANGLE El Wrongo It's TANGO, TANGLE!!!!!

    Just blowin' your kilt up TANGO

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  8. #53
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    As far as I know the kahr trigger system functions a lot like a glock. The difference lies in their cam that is used to pull the striker back and eventually release to induce primer ignition. This differs from the the glock trigger bar and disconnector combo used to accomplish the same task. Simply put, same theory (slightly) different execution. The kahr triggers are some of the smoothest DAO systems ever designed. It is largely due to some great engineering on their part. I personally love the feel of the kahr system and see a lot of promise in the design. Only time will reveal the truth as to the reliability and flexibility of the cam system. The glock trigger on the other hand seems to be a simpler design lending itself to great reliability as well as modification. Most people will agree that not everyone likes the same trigger config. and the glock design allows a wide spectrum of weights and profiles to be applied. This lets the shooter tune the gun to help them shoot at their best no matter what config that may be. I would like to see this same flexibility implemented in the kahr platform. I belive that flexibility would make the kahr cam setup one of the best personal defense handgun options. I personally carry a glock 26 or 17. I have installed Ghost Inc's Evo Elite connectors in both. I also replaced some of the springs using their spring kits. I still run the stock striker spring as that is what produced the best results on paper. Their "target" spring included in the kit is fun for range days but simply does not provide ME with the amount of feedback I wanted out of the glock trigger. I will say that this setup makes for a simple to manipulate (the most simple I've found) system while still providing the necessary level of safety. The stock glock configuration does the same thing and does it just fine but with the addition of these small mods it also helps me, the operator, to achieve extremely accurate shot placement through smooth trigger travel and uniform resistance throughout the trigger stroke. This modification will also provide the user with little to no overtravel after the shot breaks. This lack of excess movement allows the trigger to break and denies the shooter from making unwanted aiming inputs as a result of applying pressure to a firm trigger to break the shot. Consequently the shooter experiences a sudden drop in trigger tension that causes unwanted movement after the shot is fired. I have found this approach on trigger manipulation yields outstanding results in both accuracy and speed. Like I said before, everyone is different, but after taking in all the available designs along with their accompanying operational methodology I have found the glock "style" to be the most efficient of all the platforms. I have found that coupled with the right philosophies on deployment and operation of this system, the operator is able to achieve the maximum level of efficiency and is able to engage a hostile target as quickly as possible while requiring the least effort (both physically and mentally).

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badkharma85 View Post
    I have installed Ghost Inc's Evo Elite connectors in both. I also replaced some of the springs using their spring kits. I still run the stock striker spring as that is what produced the best results on paper. Their "target" spring included in the kit is fun for range days but simply does not provide ME with the amount of feedback I wanted out of the glock trigger. I will say that this setup makes for a simple to manipulate (the most simple I've found) system while still providing the necessary level of safety.
    Some like the NY-1 8 lb. spring with the Ghost 3.5 lb., or Glock "-", or Ranger, dis-connector. It supposedly gives even pressure through its 5.5 lbs. pull.

    To me, the weight doesn't feel much different than the factory setup; but overall the trigger is less mushy, and the most noticeable difference is that [the] reset is much crisper.
    Glock 19 modifications - disconnector advice please [Archive] - M4Carbine.net Forums

    http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=510632

    http://www.glockmeister.com/Evaluati...iggerPulls.asp *****

  10. #55
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  11. #56
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    Great write-up! Very good explanation of each...a good one to print out and have handy when the uninformed ask if your gun, a DW Custom 1911, came with a Safe Action Trigger, LOL!!

    (I don't, however, agree with the SA/DA criticisms; I love my FNX which is as the USP you described except with a pretty damn good DA action. I have run about 300 rounds through it in DA only -- Shoot, decock, shoot, decock, repeat 298 more times -- so I also make the training "real")

    Thanks for the OP!

    EDIT: missed the original dates...sorry for raising the dead.
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    Last edited by RadarContact; March 11th, 2014 at 09:49 PM.

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