This is a discussion on Do you have laser grips? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think the lasers add an unneeded element to an otherwise fine firearm. Some holster designs need to be modified to fit the grip versions ...
Yes, I have laser grips
No, I don't have laser grips
I'm against them
I think the lasers add an unneeded element to an otherwise fine firearm. Some holster designs need to be modified to fit the grip versions (not all), and they change the grip's feel. Not to mention too many people get used to looking for the dot instead of lining up the sights which IMO is a bad thing.
The best one though if I were to use one is the one crimson trace. Unfortunately they do not make one for a bobtailed 1911 frame. I have tried them on Glocks but didn't like the feel, having felt a Kimber Crimson Carry I must say it doesn't seem bad at all. I probably wouldn't buy it or rely on it though.
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.
To those that are critical of the use of laser sights I ask.
Do you drive a car with a automatic or non-syncronized transmission?
Do you drive a car with power brakes?
Do you drive a car with or without power steering?
I have CT on my Sig 239 - for one purpose only -- to be able to shoot from a low position (hip, waist, chest). I am so terrible at this without the laser that I can hardly hit the paper, let alone the bullseye. So with the laser, I can shoot without having to take the time to extend my arm and aim with the sights.
To me, it's very worth it.
"I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."
They might be nice as a range toy, but that's it. I don't see how a laser is going to seriously help in a defensive shooting. You're probably not even gonig to aim down your sights, let alone be able to stabilize a tiny red or green dot right on your moving target while you're also moving.
That's where training comes in - the red dot does not need to be stable...as long as the dot is on the target pull the trigger. Of course, if you need to make an accurate shot, you can do that too...much better than you could from an odd position if you were point shooting. Would you point shoot from the ground if the bad guy had a hold on one of your loved ones?
The Case for Lasers: http://www.corneredcat.com/Gear/lasergood.aspx
Training with Lasers: http://www.corneredcat.com/Gear/laserpractice.aspx
testimonials from people who have actual real-world experience with lasers: http://www.lasermax.com/CustomerStories/index.php
Put it this way - I have yet to hear of an actual operator in the real world who used a laser in a combat situation who said "these suck" and who stopped using them. Maybe such a person exists, but I have yet to hear or read of one.
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all.
I have a Crimson Trace on my M&P 9c, but not on my BUG, a S&W 642. I train with and without the laser on.
I'm glad to see people getting real use out of lasers. I might change my mind on them.
I do not use laser grips, and almost answered that I am against them, but decided that for some people, they can be of value. For the person who can't control the trigger under stress, they will still miss in a fight. (OTOH, a laser can be a good way, on a range, to show a trigger-jerker that they are indeed jerking the trigger, pulling the gun off-target.)
In a fight, looking for one's red dot on a target will be slower than acquiring a "flash" sight picture with sights, unless one is already quite close to the desired point of aim, so that the laser is merely helping to confirm point of aim. Therefore, a laser is a useful tool, but only for someone who is already an accomplished shooter without a laser. A laser is a poor crutch for a poor shooter, and in the case of beginners, should one teach a child to walk with crutches? No, teach a child to walk without crutches. Learning to use crutches can come later.
I prefer my visual crutch to be a light, and at my age, I am starting to need the help. Even in twilight, when I can see an opponent, and he can see me, so I am not "giving away" my position, a Surefire Weaponlight's beam allows me to silhouette my sights on the desired target, which sharpens the focus.
Lastly, I work for a PD that allows me to carry and use a wide variety of weapons and accessories, but forbids lasers on any weapon used for a police purpose, whether I am on or off the clock. So, ultimately, it doesn't matter how I feel about lasers. If I want to wear the badge, and to enjoy the support of the PD's legal team after a shooting, I will comply.
I want to warn everyone considering lasers that a laser's beam travels in a straight line off into infinity, whereas a bullet's path is along an arc. Basic science, but posts on multiple forums, and what I have heard spoken in person, tells me that some people don't know this, and some even think a bullet is guided by the laser. A user of a laser has to select a desired point of impact along the arc of the bullet's flight, and sight in for that distance. The laser's dot may be visible on a target far beyond the point at which the bullet has dropped well below the desired target. Moreover, a laser mounted off-center, such as most CT units, is off to one side of the beam, and if sighted-in without that offset in mind, can result in hits WAY off-target in both the horizontal and vertical planes.
Having said all of that, I am considering a high-quality pair of green lasers to someday mount on a home-defense carbine, on each side of the barrel/foregrip. I won't be wearing this badge forever, and/or a more enlightened command staff may someday allow lasers.
Last edited by Rexster; November 21st, 2010 at 08:10 PM. Reason: typo, pruning, clarity
Just got my third pair of Crimson Trace grips. L-O-V-E them
Got one on my LCP, one hanging on the rail of my P226 HD gun and one on order for my SR9c.
I believe in them, they are another tool.....