Gun Philosophy Internal Conflict

This is a discussion on Gun Philosophy Internal Conflict within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This may sound funny, but it goes with what others have already said. Get something you really like, regardless of type or capacity. Pride of ...

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Thread: Gun Philosophy Internal Conflict

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    This may sound funny, but it goes with what others have already said. Get something you really like, regardless of type or capacity. Pride of ownership is important to me. If I like it and admire it, I will shoot it more, and carry it more, and in doing this will be more proficient with it. I like purty guns that work and are reliable. My grandfather always said it doesnt take anymore to feed a purty girl than it does an ugly girl......so get you a purty one.

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  3. #17
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    I don't suppose you want another Beretta but I would consider a different 9mm. Where you live you cant have a hi-cap mag anyway.
    I think everyone should have a couple .22's. for fun. All the S&W .22 are great guns but a little pricey. Taurus 94 9 rd. is a fun revolver. Other .22 that are fun would be the Walther P22, Browning Buck mark or any of the Ruger Mark III's. There a plenty of choices in 9mm. CZ-75B, S&W M&P 9, Sig P226, P250, Walther P99, SA XD or XDM, Glock. If it is not for SD or if it is for SD at home, I would not start with a sub compact. I seems like everyone thinks they have to have a 1911. It is the SA trigger they like and the longer barrel that allows most to shoot decent without much practice. The downside is the cost of ammo.

    Spend some time at a gun shop and handle a few.
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  4. #18
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CajunBass View Post
    People sure do over-think this stuff.

    Get a gun you like and can shoot. It's that easy.
    Pretty much it in my book.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array GunGeezer's Avatar
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    Police are one thing but I believe most petty criminals are opportunists and seek out victims who's body language, mein or dress suggest they are an easy target. If they knew their target had a weapon, likely as not they would pick someone else. IMHO most any gun or caliber will deter the majority of BG's. That being said, I carry the largest caliber gun with the greatest round count I can reasonably conceal. My mom didn't raise no dummies!

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Yes, there have been cases where police officers were killed because the capacity of their revolvers was not enough, and the reload was too slow. Not sure about such cases with civilian CCW.

    Yes, there have been cases where folks have been killed or hurt because their semi-auto pistol jammed, and they could not clear the jam in time.

    Best solution? Carry two handguns. Preferably two semi-auto pistols - you get better capacity than with a revolver, and the likelihood of both of them jamming in the same incident is virtually zero.

    Lately I've been carrying a Glock 26 and a Ruger LCP.
    You left one out. There have been cases where officers carried double stacked automatics and their capacity wasn't enough. They wasted 15+ rounds and missed everything. Having more available is always a good idea, but being accurate is by far the more important factor. Get a gun you can shoot accurately and practice often. I carry a revolver (640 or 642) or a semi-auto (Glock 23), depending on my mode of dress at the time. G23 has a NY trigger, so drill is same for both systems.

    I did have two 1911s fail me in VietNam. Both were worn out WW2 weapons, so I don't fault the platform (1911) and I wouldn't feel unsafe carrying a newer, well maintained 1911 for EDC.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  7. #21
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    You left one out. There have been cases where officers carried double stacked automatics and their capacity wasn't enough. They wasted 15+ rounds and missed everything. Having more available is always a good idea, but being accurate is by far the more important factor. Get a gun you can shoot accurately and practice often. I carry a revolver (640 or 642) or a semi-auto (Glock 23), depending on my mode of dress at the time. G23 has a NY trigger, so drill is same for both systems.

    I did have two 1911s fail me in VietNam. Both were worn out WW2 weapons, so I don't fault the platform (1911) and I wouldn't feel unsafe carrying a newer, well maintained 1911 for EDC.
    Good points IMO. I've heard of several instances where the capacity wasn't enough and they wasted rounds. Not wanting to open a debate, and I highly respect my local law enforcement community (other locations may differ). Statistics are statistics. Even though it's a given right under the 2nd amendment for all of us law abiding citizens to be armed.......we need to take more responsibility than the authorities since the authorities are protected against lawsuits for the most part while on duty. I could get real deep into the subject of why CC came about and the system taking less responsibility. Legalities and lawyers....lawsuits and responsibility. Bottom line is the almighty dollar, budgets, and citizens being over-taxed. The 'system' don't work like it used to. It's adapting, and the transitional period is now and it's been introduced slowly to the American public that's working their tails off just to pay the taxes and support the system that was designed to support us. Point your finger any time.....but do it in the mirror when you do and say who's at fault aloud to yourself. We're all guilty as charged. We're all responsible.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    There have been cases where officers carried double stacked automatics and their capacity wasn't enough.
    Right. And it should always be remembered that the needs of law enforcement are different from those of concealed carrying citizens. The officer must remain on the scene and follow through until the situation is resolved with the apprehension or termination of the criminal in question. The CCW owner need only secure personal safety of him or herself and any immediate associates.

    So. In a combat situation, once you're clear, it's over. LEO has a different problem. That changes some of the dynamics at play.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Well, yea...accuracy IS of course more important. If you can guarantee a shot right between the eyes, then I guess you can comfortably carry a two-shot derringer and call it a day.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    If you cannot guarantee your shot, you have no business shooting, regardless of if you are carrying a combat load. You are responsible for every round, and once you pull the trigger, you cant take it back.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    If you cannot guarantee your shot, you have no business shooting, regardless of if you are carrying a combat load. You are responsible for every round, and once you pull the trigger, you cant take it back.
    Even John Wayne missed once in a while. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your "shot guarantee".

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Even John Wayne missed once in a while. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your "shot guarantee".
    No you understood correctly. If you are shooting at someone in self defense, you should and better make the shot. If we take the 7 yard theory that is so common, if you cant hit someone at that distance, you should not be shooting. As the range increases, as a private citizen, your reasoning diminishes also, and the more it is expected that you remove yourself from the situation, hypothetically of course. I don't know what kind of crap the new gurus having been teaching, but if you cant make your first shot a hit, you should leave the guns at home and go back to video games.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    No you understood correctly. If you are shooting at someone in self defense, you should and better make the shot. If we take the 7 yard theory that is so common, if you cant hit someone at that distance, you should not be shooting. As the range increases, as a private citizen, your reasoning diminishes also, and the more it is expected that you remove yourself from the situation, hypothetically of course. I don't know what kind of crap the new gurus having been teaching, but if you cant make your first shot a hit, you should leave the guns at home and go back to video games.
    O.K. I understand now what you meant. I was confusing "hit" with "perfect shot".

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    How do people go thru mag after mag and not hit anything? The only logical reason is because of fear and laying down a base of fire in the hopes of stopping the threat. This mentality has got to stop. If you have a clear shot, take it. If not, hold your fire. As a civilian or LE, it is irresponsible to do this. The only time this is used is in combat when you are attempting to develop fire superiority over the enemy. No matter what you carry, hi cap, revolver, whatever, make the first shot count, or you can die with 14 in the mag, or 5 as the case may be.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array MNBurl's Avatar
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    I only carry guns that fit my hands, point naturally for me, are reliable and fit a carry situation for my life style. That said I always carry two because any mechanical device will break eventually and a "New York" reload or need to arm someone else comes into play.

    My carry choice for primary caliber is 357 mag or 40 S&W and backup 38, 380 or 9mm.

    In the end, I would shoot what I brought till the threat goes away period.
    MNBurl

    "If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking" - George S. Patton.

  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    If you own two J-frames, that is ten shots before one needs to be opened and reloaded. As far back as the late 1980's, if the largest weapon on my person was a snubby, I tended to carry two of them, and never felt undergunned for a close-range fight. Any weapon, or weapon combo, is enough, until it isn't. I do currently prefer that one of my carry guns be slightly longer than a true snubby, but even then, I can usually manage to carry two revolvers more comfortably than one double-stack semi-compact autoloader. (I sometimes do carry my personally-owned duty SIG concealed on my own time.) I like the larger weapons mostly because I swore an oath, and carry a badge; protecting third parties is more likely to involve longer-distance shooting, and/or a higher round count.

    Perhaps because I really took well to speedloading revolvers, I don't feel all that handicapped by revolvers. Quite often, firing the timed qual at work, I got off two shots, performed a mandated reload, and fired two more shots before the target turned away, with my first shot after the reload being before any of the autos on the line fired their first shots after their reloads. I work for a big-city PD, and we have never lost anyone who ran out of ammo, whether revolver or auto. Quite a few have fired every round in their weapon, and missed with every shot, then been lucky because the bad guy didn't fire, or fired, but didn't hit anything, either. Carelessly launching bullets in an urbanized area is a training problem, not an ammo capacity problem.

    I have fired one round in the line of duty, which was decisive, in 27 years of service.

    I am not against autos. I like my duty SIG P229, and I love a good 1911. I also love my little Seecamp LWS-32, more of a keepsake than carry gun at this point on my life, but which will probably increase in importance after I retire in a few years. There is certainly nothing wrong with having more options, and most autos, especially double-stack autos, offer the user a higher round count before a reload. I just virtually always have an SP101 or two on or about my person; this has not changed much since 1997, when I bought my oldest little Ruger fivegun, and the two-gun habit started in 2002.

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