Gun Philosophy Internal Conflict - Page 5

Gun Philosophy Internal Conflict

This is a discussion on Gun Philosophy Internal Conflict within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by pangloss9 I've never been in a gunfight and I pray I never am, but your statements strike me as completely unrealistic. I ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    I've never been in a gunfight and I pray I never am, but your statements strike me as completely unrealistic. I can take the sights of my Glock and hit center of mass on a silhouette target as 7 yards at a decent rate of fire with no problems. I have done this to prove it to myself. However, I am absolutely certain that my shooting would not be this good shooting one handed while trying to dodge bullets. They idea that I should not shoot at some one who is trying to kill me because I might miss is just ridiculous.
    Apparently you missed, no pun intended. I never stated you should not shoot, my point is that if you miss, you are definatly dead, or greviously wounded, and errant shots put others at risk. Is it unrealistic to expect to hit the threat? You can and need to answer that for your self


  2. #62
    Member Array pangloss9's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarification. Without diving back into the suppressive fire debate, I think unrealistic shots would be a waste of ammo.

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pangloss9 View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. Without diving back into the suppressive fire debate, I think unrealistic shots would be a waste of ammo.
    That and a possible waste of something more valuble:)

  4. #64
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    Hi Tangle;

    With respect, I just gotta ask: Why do you promote the high-capacity semi-auto so fervently here on the Forum? It is almost as if you are on a mission to convert everyone to that mindset. There's nothing wrong with that mindset either but there are forum members here who simply aren't like-minded and they aren't necessarily barmy ol' coots because they choose to tote something that holds fewer than 15 shots. For myself, I don't even mind "sitting at the back of the bus" in this brave new high-tech, tacti-cool world but please don't pitch us and our notions under the bus.

    I'm mostly here because this forum gives me the opportunity to keep up with the current firearms trends, because it is uniquely well managed for a forum of such a large size, and because of some fantastic members who regularly post here. It does seem though that any time a predilection is shown for the old revolver, in any of its forms, as a valid self defense choice then efforts are made to stamp it out. Why is that?
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  5. #65
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    OP, what do you want, we can sit here all day and debate semi's vs revolvers, we can debate high cap mags vs single stack. we can do all of that, what it boils down too is what you want on your hip, what means the most to you, most of my guns have a sentimental value, my springfield XDM was a gift from mom for me getting the job I wanted, my 1911 I had 200 dollars paid on was paid off and got out of layaway for me by mom as a birthday present, my ruger security six was my grandfathers, my rifles except for my high point carbine were my grandfathers and every shotgun except my 870 was my grandpa's or grandma's shotgun. Buy what you like best, buy what fits your hand and heart best, and go from there. For me a gun is not a tool, or a weapon, it is a reminder of a memory, my 870 was the first gun i bought by myself, my Sigma is my first 9mm and the second handgun i purchased all by myself. Buy a gun that reminds you of something or someone, and everytime you shoot or carry it, it will bring that memory back to you. Get the one that you want, not the most tactical or shiny gun in the cabnet, unless thats what your heart is set on
    "The value you put on the lost will be determined by the sacrifice you are willing to make to seek them until they are found."

  6. #66
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Yes Chris, I can totally relate with what you said. I am getting over sentimental value though, as I figure if my grandfather was alive today he would encourage me to get what I want and enjoy.

    There are some guns that just capture us for reasons we can't put our fingers on. I decided sometime ago it was ok to be me and like what I like. I don't have to follow the crowd, it's ok to carry and use what you like, not what self appointed tactical shooting gurus say you must have.

    I don't know how any of our parents survived to allow us to be here without being able to defend themselves with all of these modern hi cap machines, and designer bullets and gear. It's amazing.

  7. #67
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I don't know how any of our parents survived to allow us to be here without being able to defend themselves with all of these modern hi cap machines, and designer bullets and gear. It's amazing.
    Sadly, some didn't.

    I think back to my childhood, riding in the back seat of my dad's car - no seatbelts, never mind a child seat. While I survived, many kids did not, as they got ejected from vehicles during accidents and became smears on the roadway. By your logic, we should not have seatbelts, child seats, airbags, anti-lock brakes, and etc...

    The bottom line for me is the fact that an 11-shot G26 is the same size as a 5-shot snubbie - thinner overall actually. The only advantage to the alloy/polymer revolvers is their lighter weight, which makes them more suited for pocket carry than the subcompact Glocks (and similar). For the way I have to dress, I cannot conceal a snubbie in my pocket, so that advantage is moot.

    As far as reliability is concerned, if a revolver goes bang 99.9% of the time, a Glock goes bang 99.7% of the time. Not enough of a difference to sacrifice half the ammo capacity.

    75% of the time a gun is drawn in self defense, there is more than one attacker. Maybe the others will flee at the first shots - but maybe they won't.

    Frankly, my concern is with more than the typical street-crime scenario. My concern also includes active shooters in public places, be they crazies or terrorists. In this case, you will want all the firepower you can reasonably carry concealed in order to extricate your family.

    I think we are long past anyone on either side convincing the other. Hopefully, the OP and some newer folks reading all this will find it interesting, and give them different perspectives to consider as they make their choice.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  8. #68
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    Respectfuly to you, I was not applying logic to safety devices. I cannot fathom not using child restraints. And of course, I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. To each his own, said that many times here also.

    A forum without a good discussion of two seperate sides of the issue, is not a forum, but rather a bunch of back slappers giving each other atta boys.

    I certainly can understand and appriciate the views of those who prefer auto loaders with hi caps. But it seems to me here that some people who are for hi cap have not acknowledged in print here that there are advantages to other types of pistols, namely revolvers. I have always acknowledged the hi cap is a good choice, but as one who teaches and uses a handgun everyday, I also know that it's not the end all solution.

    Those who like a 1911 are really not better armed than one who carrys a six shot revolver, nor is one who carrys a glock any better off than the one carrying the 1911.

    Your mindset, and ability are always the most important weapons, and you are already set for failure if you believe the more bullets you have, the better off you are.
    If you cannot acknowledge this, then you are in fact part of that mentality.
    I shoot an auto loader very well. I have enough trophies and wall hangers to back this up, but it doesn't mean anything other than I shoot well in competition.
    The fact that I choose a revolver is a personal choice. I do not shoot it any better than any of my autoloaders. But I choose it for reasons because I see characterisics in it that I feel are advantagous over hi cap autoloaders. Round count is simply not a priority in my selection.

  9. #69
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    It's amazing to me that stats given on Spike TV (the cable channel famous for girls bouncing on trampolines) are now self defense gospel.
    Last edited by satori59; November 29th, 2010 at 10:17 AM. Reason: sp
    Honor is self-esteem made visible in action. - Ayn Rand

  10. #70
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by satori59 View Post
    It's amazing to me that stats given on Spike TV (the cable channel famous for girs bouncing on trampolines) are now self defense gospel.
    I was just going to ask where this TV program obtained these "statistics."
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  11. #71
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satori59 View Post
    It's amazing to me that stats given on Spike TV (the cable channel famous for girs bouncing on trampolines) are now self defense gospel.
    To be honest, I think most shooters here are a above average group of people who take SD seriously and pay close attention to things that are of interest to them. There are so many things to consider that it is a mistake to put all eggs in one basket , and I think most here use it for a reference. Even with that being true, and it may be, there are other considerations.

  12. #72
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    Choose a really good sidearm, of whatever type you reason is the best (I would recommend a service type semi-auto, slim enough for good IWB concealment, but you might have a strong and valid preference for a Smith K-frame in an OWB), learn how to run it like it's second nature, and train for malfunctions. Carry reloads. Make it your way of life to never stand on "the X."
    Under the sword lifted high, there is Hell, making you tremble. But go ahead, and you have the land of Bliss.

    ~ Miyamoto Musashi

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    I was just going to ask where this TV program obtained these "statistics."
    IIRC, the stats came from a University of Florida study that looked at self-defense incidents where a handgun was actually drawn.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  14. #74
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    IIRC, the stats came from a University of Florida study that looked at self-defense incidents where a handgun was actually drawn.
    The study done by Gary Kleck (I should say one of the gun control studies done by him)?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Agree completely that mindset and ability are most important, but I see no reason to compromise on capacity unless there is a very specific need to - examples: an alloy/polymer snubbie is lighter in weight than a subcompact auto, and thus better suited for pocket carry; if you are concerned about firing from within a pocket the revolver is better, etc.

    I would disagree that carrying a high-cap pistol does not mean you are better armed than carrying a low-cap handgun, be that a 1911 or a revolver...I think it does make you better armed. I never went on a combat mission wishing for less ammo, and while I'm now a civilian, I still want more of a margin for error than a lower capacity allows.

    There are many factors outside of your control in a fight - the enemy may not do what you expect, you may not be as accurate as you think you are, your bullets may not have the immediate effect you would like, etc etc etc. I can control how many rounds I have available, within reason given the need to conceal.

    I see the revolver as a very specialized weapon, to be used in a very specific set of circumstances. For general use, preference goes to the pistol...preferably two of 'em.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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