This is a discussion on Fnh 5.7 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think the claims about wounding capabilities are in error. Check with the soldiers at Ft. Hood, where Maj. Nidal Hasan killed 13 in his ...
November 28th, 2010 03:23 PM
I think the claims about wounding capabilities are in error. Check with the soldiers at Ft. Hood, where Maj. Nidal Hasan killed 13 in his 'terrorist attack'.
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November 28th, 2010 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by TX-JB
Check out some of the accounts of soldiers who were hit three or more times, often several of those rounds in the torso, that were able to run out of the building.
The non LEO loadings are severely neutered, with light-penetrating V-max varmint bullets. While it could be lethal, so can a .22 short or a pellet gun; it's how effective it is in stopping a determined opponent that matters...and in that category, I think the 5.7 is severely lacking.
There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men.--RAH
...man fights with his mind; the weapons are incidental.--Jeff Cooper
There is a reason they try and make small bullets act like big bullets--Glockmann10mm
November 28th, 2010 05:38 PM
There are two bullets currently on the general market. The one mentioned so far in this thread is the SS197 I believe. it is the blue polymer tipped bullet which is basically a varmint round. The other is the SS197LF. It is a hollow tipped design that is made to work more like a normal hollow point. If I had to carry a FiveseveN I would definitely use this one. And it is about the same cost as other premium defensive cartridges.
Bend the knees, smooth is fast, watch the front sight.
November 28th, 2010 06:27 PM
The muzzle velocity for the 5.7 out of a pistol is ~ 1650 fps, yielding ~ 250 ft/lbs of energy.
Very similar to the .22 WMR, and way, way less powerful than .223 Rem.
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November 28th, 2010 07:21 PM
You can check out this site where it says the "sporting" versions of ammo are not classified as armor-piercing by the BATFE and then decide for yourself. It's an interesting read on the round.
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November 28th, 2010 08:19 PM
November 29th, 2010 12:10 PM
The "vest penetration" was it's entire reason for development. It was purposefully designed to be fired out of a PDW with an 11.5 inch or more barrel and to defeat CRISAT test armor. That is the ONLY thing it was designed to do. Out of a pistol, it will not behave as well, of course.
Originally Posted by OldVet
As far as reloading is concerned, that is a no-go. The FN 5.7 is designed with a very specific pressure spike in mind, and it uses a proprietary powder. Less than precise loading and playing with the amounts and types of powder could cause the gun to Kb.
November 29th, 2010 12:59 PM
Tangle - there are VERY few pistols that will claim an effective range of more than 50m. Obviously, the actual maximum range will be much, much higher, but 50 is more or less the "standard" max effective range for almost all combat/duty/SD handguns.
A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.
November 30th, 2010 10:31 AM
Perhaps so, I was wondering if this was more of an issue because of the lighter round and higher velocity. I was thinking the lighter round would slow down quicker one, because it has less inertia and two, more wind resistance due to the high velocity. I think wind resistance is proportional to like the square or cube of the velocity and linear with frontal area. As a light bullet loses velocity the energy starts to drop like a rock!
Originally Posted by OPFOR
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December 3rd, 2010 04:19 PM
Actually, there is 195 and 197 ammo. I think you made a typo in your post (you mentioned 197 twice, yet linked to a picture of the 195 ammo).
Originally Posted by jualdeaux
The 197 ammo is a VMax round. It does fragment in interesting ways. I have read some ballistic tests done by some people that show an impressive initial wound channel.
The 195 round does have a hollow point, but it does NOT work as a traditional JHP. It does not open up like a JHP pistol round would. It actually "yaws" in the target, and should turn around. Ideally, it points back to the direction it came. In doing so, it makes a wound channel the length of the round in the area it does this "flip."
Personally, of the two factory rounds available commercially, I like the 197 round. I have two PS90s, and I keep the 197 ammo in both. You also get more FPS out of the PS90 than you do out of the FIve Seven.
I previously owned a Five Seven, but sold it in 2008 to help pay for a custom 1911. I have admittedly been thinking of maybe getting another. It's really cool with the 30 round extended mags (the last 10 rounds in the 30 rounder mags are a major pain to load, however).
I used to be the admin of the FN Forum, so I'm pretty familiar with the caliber.
December 3rd, 2010 04:36 PM
I'm intrigued by it - but in my state limit is 10 rd mag, so half the reason for using it - high number of repeat shots - would be absent.
I think the real ?-marks about it's effectiveness as an SD weapon - where you don't want pass-throughs and you do want quick "stops" - is lack of use by professional police in the field.
And the price makes buying it as a "for the helluvit experiment" not a real option for most of us. Paying a thousand bucks I have to know from others' use - hopefully decades of it - I'm getting an effective weapon as SD - much better than what I've got. So, I don't think I'll be owning one soon. Now if it cost $80 I might.
December 3rd, 2010 04:47 PM
Actually, one of the purposes of the weapon is to KEEP from having over penetration. The round breaks up on hard targets very well. The round will penetrate fewer interior walls than a traditional round. I've seen videos of the round breaking apart after hitting a couple of walls, and how it goes thru the first layer of a cinder block, but stops before going thru the second "wall" of the cinderblock (it never goes completely thru).
The round is also supposed to not suffer from over penetration of soft targets as much as other rounds do as well.
It's actually a pretty cool round, but to get heavier, more effective rounds requires using non FN rounds by Elite Ammunition.
Still, when I see wound channels in animals or large pieces of meat (where people cut them open to look at the cavity inside), I have been fairly impressed with the wound channel on the 197. I think aim is as important with this round as it is with all rounds.
Will a 45 do more damage? Yes - but this is a cool weapon too - with different advantages AND disadvantages.
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