5 Shots of .357 or 6 shots .38+p?

This is a discussion on 5 Shots of .357 or 6 shots .38+p? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; For concealed carry, I prefer 5 shots of .357. At times though I do carry 5 shots of .38 sp +P, though I still prefer ...

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Thread: 5 Shots of .357 or 6 shots .38+p?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    For concealed carry, I prefer 5 shots of .357. At times though I do carry 5 shots of .38 sp +P, though I still prefer .357.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  3. #47
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adkjoe View Post
    Just curious what you folks would prefer. 5 shots of .357 mag or 6 shots of .38 +P? Carrying only 1 gun what would you pick and why?
    Tamatoes, Tamotoes, really. Either or will be just fine. While the 357 has more umphhh, one extra round, or 20% more capacity, is also a good thing to have.

    Since you are asking about 5 - 6 respectivley for each caliber, I figure you are talking about a small frame, maybe a snub nose. There is alot of debate on this, but the fact is out of a short barrel you lose alot with the magnum, not as much with the .38. While the magnum still beats (barely) the .38 with velocity from a short barrel, you pay for it dearly with muzzle flash, harser recoil, and a much louder report. So if it is a snubbie you are looking at, I'd go with the 38+p. Why go down a round in capacity when you get little in return, and most of what you get is the negative affects from shooting the Mag in a short barrel, for giving up a round?

    So for a snubbie I say the 38+p hands down, but the magnum really shines and out distances the 38 from longer barrels, so if it is a longer barrel the 357 would be ok, but it still fairly well equals out when you look at 5 to 6.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

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  4. #48
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devone6 View Post
    While the magnum still beats (barely) the .38 with velocity from a short barrel, you pay for it dearly with muzzle flash, harser recoil, and a much louder report. So if it is a snubbie you are looking at, I'd go with the 38+p. Why go down a round in capacity when you get little in return, and most of what you get is the negative affects from shooting the Mag in a short barrel, for giving up a round?
    .
    Here is a test that disprove your opinion

    http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm

    and here is what Buffalo bore claims:

    38+P

    Item 20B: 125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point. This is the Low velocity version designed to expand under 800 fps. It will mushroom violently and penetrate roughly 12 inches in human flesh.

    a. S&W mod 60, 2 inch- 1072 fps (319 ft. lbs.)
    b. S&W mod 66, 2.5 inch- 1108 fps (341 ft. lbs.)
    c. Ruger SP101, 3 inch- 1180 fps (386 ft. lbs.)
    d. S&W Mt. Gun, 4 inch- 1258 fps (439 ft. lbs.)
    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=108


    357 of same grain:

    . 3 inch S&W J frame

    a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard cast LFN = 1302 fps
    b. Item 19B/20-170gr. JHC (jacketed hollow cavity) = 1299 fps
    c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps
    d. Item 19D/20-125gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1476 fps

    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=102

    Even the short barrel stuff is cruising:
    S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8 inch barrel - 1,109 fps (341 ft. lbs.)
    S&W mod. 66 2-1/2-inch barrels -1,225 fps (416 ft. lbs.)
    S&W mod. 65 3-inch barrels - 1,322 fps (485 ft. lbs.)
    S&W Mt. Gun 4-inch barrel - 1,445 fps (579 ft. lbs.)
    Colt Python 6-inch barrel - 1,388 fps (535 ft. lbs.)
    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=107

    Hardly barely..... and hardley a lot to handle... I have no issue one handing it in my ruger LCR

  5. #49
    Member Array Angry Bill's Avatar
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    5 shots of .357 mag. I prefer american made revolvers. My favorite CCW at the present time is the S&W 3" model 30 pro. It conceils "almost" as easily as my 638 but at the same time is more "well rounded" as a loose all-in-one term to describe the various features we are looking for as CHL holders.

    I don't own any 6-shot 38's (or 38+p's) but a bianchi speed strip quickly turns the 5 shottie into a 10 shottie.
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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    Here is a

    http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm

    and here is what Buffalo bore claims:

    38+P



    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=108


    357 of same grain:




    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=102

    Even the short barrel stuff is cruising:

    http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...t_detail&p=107

    Hardly barely..... and hardley a lot to handle... I have no issue one handing it in my ruger LCR
    Listen azchevy, I'm not wanting to argue, just stating my humble opinion. You can go to ballistics by the inch (independant testing as opposed to Buffalo Bore), and see that out of a two inch barrel most 38 loads are between 850fps and 925fps (real world weapons, and the 357 Mag is 950-1150fps (they don't have a two inch barrel real weapon). So there is a gain, but just 100-150fps. Then look at a 4 inch barrel, now the Mag jumps 300-400fps (some rounds even more) ahead of the 38.

    When you shoot a 357Mag out of a snub and see that big ball of fire, it is really wasted energy that isn't pushing the bullet down the barrel, because the barel is to short.

    And even though you can shoot a 357 out of a snub just fine, I think even you will agree there is a difference in recoil, report, and muzzle flash.

    My post was just to say, a long barrel gun, it is eaither or for a .38 or 357, I even say the 357 has quite an advantage in a long barrel. But from a short barrel, why give up 20% capacity for a 10% perfomance gain that to get you must also take the report, flash and recoil. Just doesn't add up to me.

    As for the "test that disprove your opinion", I used to be in the 357 short barrel camp myself, then I did my own testing, and found the reasons I have the opinion I do now.

    That said, I respect your opinion azchevy, I used to hold the same opinion as I stated, I just don't hold it now.

    For the OP, if it is a 5 shot 357 you desire, get at least a 3inch barrel, because with the 1 7/8" or 2" you just simply are not getting the bang for your buck! Even in the post above that was used to "disprove my opinion", plaese note that the 38 in the 3" SP101 beat the 357Mag from the 340PD, and the 38 round was only 100fps slower from the same gun, the S&W 66with the 2 1/2" barrel, which actually proves my points quite well.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

  7. #51
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Actually I really cant tell the recoil difference from 38+p and .357 out of a snub and the .357 is hand over feet pushing at faster velocities and it isn't even close. But you can carry all the 38 you want, I have found that many people are recoil sensitive and that is cool.

  8. #52
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Nice under the table jab , but I'm not really recoil sensitive at all. And you are correct; the 357Mag is pushing higher velocities just not that much more in short barrels. But that's really just relative opinion right, not that much more to me may be a lot for you, and that is ok. It all really goes back to each person's own experiences and opinions. You are in the short barrel Mag camp; I used to be but am not now. While you obviously don't respect my opinion, hence the recoil sensitive jab, I do respect yours, I even held it once.

    Like I said in the first post, because I figured this would happen, "there is alot of debate on this".

    I'm out of this one now. Take care.
    My heroes are Veterans and My Father (who was a veteran).

    I believe prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance should have REMAINED in schools, and the Ten Commandments should have REMAINED in schools, courthouses, and everywhere else it was before the ACLU got involved.

  9. #53
    Member Array 02PSD4ME's Avatar
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    I only have ONE gun that fits the criteria. My 5 shot Ruger LCR .357
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  10. #54
    Senior Member Array GlockJS's Avatar
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    I'll take 6 of 38 +P. I think in terms of multiple attackers so more ammo is always a good thing.
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  11. #55
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devone6 View Post
    Tamatoes, Tamotoes, really. Either or will be just fine. While the 357 has more umphhh, one extra round, or 20% more capacity, is also a good thing to have.

    Since you are asking about 5 - 6 respectivley for each caliber, I figure you are talking about a small frame, maybe a snub nose. There is alot of debate on this, but the fact is out of a short barrel you lose alot with the magnum, not as much with the .38. While the magnum still beats (barely) the .38 with velocity from a short barrel, you pay for it dearly with muzzle flash, harser recoil, and a much louder report. So if it is a snubbie you are looking at, I'd go with the 38+p. Why go down a round in capacity when you get little in return, and most of what you get is the negative affects from shooting the Mag in a short barrel, for giving up a round?

    So for a snubbie I say the 38+p hands down, but the magnum really shines and out distances the 38 from longer barrels, so if it is a longer barrel the 357 would be ok, but it still fairly well equals out when you look at 5 to 6.
    the 6 shot of 38 +p is is coming out of a 2.25" barrel and the 5 shots of .357 is coming out of a 3.25"
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  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Ten or eleven shots of .357. It is so easy to tote two revolvers, there is no need to settle for a single digit number of in-gun rounds.

  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Knightrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adkjoe View Post
    Just curious what you folks would prefer. 5 shots of .357 mag or 6 shots of .38 +P? Carrying only 1 gun what would you pick and why?
    6 shots of .38spl

    Why? More is better.
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  14. #58
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    Either or.
    Six of one half doz,,,,,,,,,

    Oh well, you get it!

    I think either way you are not under gunned.
    .357 MAY have a slight edge?????????
    Who knows for sure.
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  15. #59
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    All things being equal, short barrel carry or 5" duty, I'd take the six in a _modern_ loading of .38 Special +P.
    Modern loading meaning not the old school wadcutters and lead projectiles of old. I'd be loaded with same as what I carry currently in autoloaders; Corbon DPX.

    Reason I would select .38 over .357 is due to both felt recoil AND recovery time, so as to make a follow on shot!

    People talk of not being able to tell the difference between the two...Either they are Terminators, Jerry Miclucek or are shooting guns from a mechanical rest.
    The felt recoil is significantly different between .38 and .357...This due to basic physics, whether one acknowledges and realizes as much or not.
    Now as to common man shooters (the vast 90th percentile) most folk cannot fire a .357 and get back on target as quickly as they can with a .38.
    Try as you might you just won't catchup. Again basic physics.

    Where as to combat use (self defense) I don't want to bet on just one round fired doing the job and being enough. I would never bet on that toward any single handgun round (!) to stop a threat. Yes it does occur and can happen. But how many folk do you know walking around with single shot guns for self defense? I'm gonna bet on zero.
    So you fire one shot of .357...And miss. Now what? Time, that's what.
    Ride out the recoil, reacquire your sights (if time by distance allows and not you are forced to Pointshoot)...And try again.

    With .38 though and it's much reduced recoil with energy directly akin to 9MM, you can fire and keep on firing without having a recoil pulse slow you down nearly as much AND sight alignment stays relatively flat as during recoil by that greatly reducing time spent realigning the sights if necessary at all.
    So that is time and as well have well discussed here across many threads; Time is life.
    Add to that time the ability to put a volume of fire into a smaller amount of time than same for .357 at the same capacity (5 shots) and what you have there is time on top of time (!).
    Plus add a bonus round in chamber number six then you've got yourself an odds breaker if not outright winner.

    Additionally to those who think that .357 is just moderately different than .38 in recoil, then wonder why it is there is no and has not been a push for use of same in action shooting sports be it IDPA, IPSC or even cowboy action?
    If they were same or the increased power factor made up for the rest as I've detailed above...Then well folk would be running it or pressing toward it's allowance.
    No such occurrence/demand is on going, as far as I'm aware.

    Last item...If power factor is very much a concern along with capacity, then folk would be wise to look into .327 Magnum.
    Six rounds in a cylinder with a commercial cartridge that has velocity same as .357 Magnum while giving up just about 50-75 ft. lbs. of energy and that is only due to mass of the projectile being slightly smaller and thus lighter (E=1/2MV2).

    Personally myself not being a Terminator nor Jerry Miculcek (I've shaken his hand before and it is literally like a vice) and not normally carrying my combat gun in a mechanical shooting rest...I would select .38 Special +P OR even better go for .327 Federal magnum and by that have my cake and eat it too.

    - Janq

    P.S. .380 ACP is not in the running, and greatly outmatched by .38 Special when comparing apples to apples.
    No matter how 'hot' one might think they can run .380 they will _always_ be limited by case capacity toward powder load.
    Very simply .380 ACP is a short AND narrow case. .38 Special is much longer AND wider, thus supporting far more powder and by that _significantly_ greater power factor (velocity and energy) even as the projectile in specific might be similar in outside diameter and mass (on the low end for .38 and 9MM).
    Some factual figures:
    .380 = 17.3mm case length @ 9.5mm rim diameter ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.380_ACP
    9MM = 19.13mm case length @ 9.96mm rim diameter ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19mm_Parabellum
    .38 Special = 29.3mm (!) case length @ 11mm rim diameter ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.380_ACP

    Comparing .380 ACP to .38 Special makes no sense at all if you understand the cartridges and rounds overall as they actually are produced.
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  16. #60
    New Member Array Joshuashoots's Avatar
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    5 shots .357 out in the woods.
    6 shots .38+p in the city.
    Different guns for different opportunities...

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