380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011? - Page 3

380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011?

This is a discussion on 380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My son sees many gunshot wounds each year as a paramedic in Flint Michigan, he says the 45 and 357 do so much to destroy ...

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 82

Thread: 380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    537
    My son sees many gunshot wounds each year as a paramedic in Flint Michigan, he says the 45 and 357 do so much to destroy or shock organs even when major organs are not hit directly it still damages them. The lighter 9mm and down do kill people after they bleed out, he has even had some walk to the gurney only to die later.

    Bigger holes make more destruction, yes any bullet to a vital area kills but does not always end the fight. A rifle is better, only 15% of handgun shooting are fatal, over 60% of rifle shooting are fatal.


  2. #32
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,262
    That's interesting, because all the data I've read says that handguns just don't have the power to cause remote wounding via the temporary stretch cavity...unlike rifle bullets, which can. I'm not doubting you or your son, just curious. Does your son actually get to witness surgery and see the internal organs?
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    537
    He does go into the trauma room and yes they do open chest cavities while he is there.

  4. #34
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,253
    This is what it boils down to for me:

    Carry the hardest hitting caliber that you can effectively control and the biggest gun you can effectively conceal.
    If I could I'd carry a 12 Guage or an EBR as I was walking through the grocery store. They are much more effective at stopping threats. Seeing as how I can't do that, without some Soccer Mom calling 911 I am forced to resort to handguns. Being that shotguns and rifles have way more power, and are more effective at stopping threats, I want my handgun to come as close to the power of the longarm as I can manage while still taking in to consideration things like over-penetration, concealability, and reliability of the chosen platform.

    For some of you that may be a "mousegun". FWIW 9mm/38 Special are as small as I go, and I prefer larger than that. Hey, do what you want, as it's only your life you are defending, and matters not to me. Maybe the mousegun will get the job done, but maybe not. That can be said about larger calibers as well. I just think the larger calibers, and more power they offer, gives one a little more margin for error, but then I have been known to be redudndant.

    The "Lightning Bolt" reputation was made around the Federal 357B load and it's Remington counterpart. That was a .357 Magnum with a 125 grain JHP from Federal and the Remington 125 Grain SJHP travelling at 1450 fps. Both loads are from the 1970's, and still rated by various sources as the leader in one shot stops or stopping ability. They are still produced today, but hard to find. Most of the .357 Magnum loads sold today for defensive use are what are referred to as "watered down" or mid-range loads. Since those loads worked well then, and seeing as how people haven't changed, I fail to see why it wouldn't work now.

    Now with all that said, one shot stop was a method of measurement, not a tactical theory. I don't care if I have a .357 Magnum, 12 Guage, or a .25 Auto, I plan to shoot until the threat ceases to be a threat. That most likely will mean horizontal with a cessation of respirations. I want to stop the threat, and the best way to ensure that is to have the threat cease respirations. If the threat stops, but respirations don't cease I have still done what I desired to do, which was to stop the threat. The problem is, far to often attackers are shot and continue their attack long enough to harm you or others and then cease respirations. That to me is a failure to stop the threat.

    The goal is for me and mine to continue living. If the attacker kills me, and then stops by dying after he kills me, I fail to see how it is anything but a failure. There ain't no magic bullet folks, but I want to stack the odds in my favor as much as I can. Mouseguns don't put the odds in my favor. I don't care if the attacker lives or dies, only that I go on living. Larger calibers, with more power, tend to do that job better than smaller calibers.

    Biker

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,262
    Seems there is disagreement even among the "experts" who have "been there, done that"...

    http://www.warriortalk.com/showthrea...ns-for-AmmoLab
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array rammerjammer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Posts
    3,622
    I'd rather have the LCP than nothing at all.

    I don't care what people say about the ballistics of the .380 - the fact is that a .380 in your hand is better than the bigger gun at home you couldn't conceal. I've never gone unarmed when I wanted to be armed since I bought the LCP. That's what it's good for.

    That said, when the SIG P290 comes out I'll take a good look at that. It may fit in between the G26 and the LCP in terms of concealability, and if it does, I'll buy one, but I won't sell the LCP when I do. There is always a place in the line up for a gun that can be concealed 99.9% of the time, even if it is only a .380.

    Fitch[/QUOTE]

    I totally agree. The. 380 is a compromise but my LCP allows me to be armed anytime I choose to be.


    The new Sign P290 intrigues me and I hope that Ruger will be bringing out a pocket 9.

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,637
    To the OP, I also sold my Ruger LCP .380 and now carry a Kahr CW9 9mm in its place. I feel much better about being armed with a 9mm than a .380. I was carrying the Ruger LCP because I did not want to go unarmed in the summertime. I found it was just as easy to carry the Kahr and now I don't think I could ever go back to a .380 pistol.
    God bless our troops!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    537
    Hi crzy4guns, I sold my LCP and now carry either 38 or 9mm and feel it is best for me. What holster are you using for your CW9?

  9. #39
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,827
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Seems there is disagreement even among the "experts" who have "been there, done that"...
    It wasn't that long ago that I got into a looooong debate about this. Two guys that claimed to have vast experience and access to EMRs treating gunshot wounds, and Arthor Avani (Ghost Inc) who is an EMT and also involved in a lot of gunshot wound treatment in EMRs, agree that they cannot tell what caliber made a wound cavity unless they actually recover the bullet.

    One of the issues is the behavior of the flesh. Flesh tends to open as the bullet passes through but then recovers to a smaller wound channel than the caliber of the bullet. One of the significant things about this is that, according to the two guys I debated this with, is that bleeding, i.e. bleed out, is not necessarily proportional to caliber and/or wound cavity. Also another very significant factor is that unless the bullet hits a major blood vessel there is not nearly as much bleeding as one would expect, partly because of the blood clotting within the wound cavity.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array crzy4guns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    2,637
    Quote Originally Posted by MichSteve View Post
    Hi crzy4guns, I sold my LCP and now carry either 38 or 9mm and feel it is best for me. What holster are you using for your CW9?
    Sorry that I am slow in responding, I use a Desantis Super Fly pocket holster.
    God bless our troops!

  11. #41
    Member Array Fozzy Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    186
    MichSteve,

    As for the conversation that has arisen, I will add my voice to the "carry as much as you can manage accurately" chorus.

    But, getting back to the original post for a minute, I'd like to mention one specific thing about comparing 357 and 45. - Now this is my personal experience, but many people seem to agree that one of the things that makes a gun ""concealable"" is not so much weight or barrel length as much as width. IMHO, a thin gun with a 5 inch barrel is easier to conceal than a wide gun with a 2 inch tube. In the real world, that translates to " I believe a 1911 is easier to carry than a snub-nosed revolver." So, as you might imagine, I carry a .45 myself. I happen to go one further and carry either a Commander or Officer (4 inch or 3 inch barrel, respectively) but even if I owned a 5 inch version, I'd carry it over one of my revolvers (even the snub).

    As far as caliber goes, you can get a 1911 in 9mm (Springfield sells one in officer's sized (3") that is quite easy to conceal.) or even 38 super or 10mm. So that goes back to the above discussion... But as far as concealment goes, look for a NARROW gun, and you'll have a better time of it.


    Just my opinion; I Could be wrong.
    ...
    ...
    Heisenberg may have slept here
    ...
    ...

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    537
    Hi Fozzy Bear, you seem to have experience with 1911's, I was wondering what you would recommend in a 4" 45acp under $900?

  13. #43
    Member Array chiefrcd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    227
    Every gun is a compromise depending on the circumstances. I would not want to face down a Cape Buffalo with my Ruger 556. The .380 is a compromise for most of because of it's size, easy of carry and how well it is concealed. I'd rather carry my .45 but there are times when it is not practical and I slip on my Sig.232 with Buffalo Bore. I do not feel underpowered because I have practiced and practiced and then practiced some more. I still say, any gun and caliber are only as good as you can shoot it. Accuracy trumps size any day of the week.
    Have Gun ~ Will Carry
    S-Safety
    M-Motivation
    A-Awareness
    R-Responsibility
    T-Training

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Under a Volkswagen somewhere in Florida
    Posts
    9,440
    I agree with Rollo. I don't have a 380 as my personal preference for SD rounds is a minimum 9mm / 38+P, prefer .40 in a semi-auto, sometimes carry a .45 in 1911, and favorite is .357 Magnum SP101. I think the 380 has a place in SD for some folks and some circumstances. I've shot a Bersa Thunder 380 and it is a smooth and accurate shooter for folks with weak hands. The LCP size guns aren't smooth, but do fill a niche for the super concealment need. I don't get concerned about capacity and feel comfortable carrying a 5 shot snubbie most of the time, but do carry hi cap semiautos if going to an event where there are a lot of people. Typically with a revolver in my weak pocket. It comes down to assessing your own circumstances and abilities.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.

  15. #45
    Member Array ken45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    183
    According to Kleck and others, over 90% of the time that a handgun is used for self defense, ZERO shots are fired. For that 90-95% of the time, a .380 is perfectly adequate.

    I have a Sig P230 (.380). But I will only carry it a few times a year when I otherwise wouldn't carry. I strongly agree that penetration is of utmost importance and only use FMJ in .380.

    I prefer a .357 or .45. A 3" 5 shot .357 conceals easier for me than any semi auto since the grip blends in better from it than from any semi I own.

    Ken

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. My 1911 for 2011
    By CMR in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 8th, 2011, 08:06 AM
  2. 1911-2011 Anybody celebrating by buying a 2011 special edition model?
    By Rotorblade in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: March 3rd, 2011, 02:19 AM
  3. Making changes for 2011
    By glockman10mm in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: January 10th, 2011, 06:21 PM
  4. Getting a new gun in Jan. 2011
    By alafan in forum Defensive Carry Guns
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: December 29th, 2010, 05:39 PM
  5. 40 caliber versus 45 caliber for home defense?
    By Sneaky in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: January 11th, 2008, 01:24 PM

Search tags for this page

.380 stops the fight
,
.380 wounds
,

380 gunshot wound

,
380 gunshot wounds
,
380 hand gone
,
best 380 cal pistol
,

best 380 caliber handgun

,

best 380 caliber handguns

,

best 380 caliber pistol

,
hodoway
,
jon hodoway
,
max range of 380 cal.
Click on a term to search for related topics.