380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011? - Page 4

380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011?

This is a discussion on 380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I like the .380 if that is all I can carry, as it is better than nothing. I like having one as a pocket gun. ...

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Thread: 380 Gone, Caliber Changes for 2011?

  1. #46
    New Member Array Topgun121's Avatar
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    I like the .380 if that is all I can carry, as it is better than nothing. I like having one as a pocket gun. I do own a Sig P238 and a Ruger LCP, but after comparing specs on a few, I am inclined to go buy a Kahr PM9. The price of the Sig and the Kahr are comparable.

    PM9 9mm = Height - 4", Length - 5.3", Slide Width - .90", Weight w/mag - 15.9oz

    Sig p238 .380 = Height - 3.9", Length - 5.5", Slide Width - 1.1", Weight w/mag - 15.2oz


    When comparing these two, the choice seems obvious to go with the PM9.


    The Ruger LCP is a bit smaller and lighter. I may keep my LCP for pocket carry or backup, and sell my Sig and get a PM9 for EDC.

    I do own 1911's in 9mm and .45, as well as some other 9's like a CZ, but don't carry them too often due to bulk, weight or size. To carry consistently for me, it will come down to the LCP and the PM9.

    I listened to the whole PodCast, but it did not convince me to never carry a .380, but after comparing specs, there is no reason to carry a P238 over a PM9. Although I will say I love the 1911 style of the p238 and it is smooth and easy shooting. I have shot a PM9 and it is not a fun gun to shoot at the range. I has a bit more snap. I think the Ruger LCP has more snap than the PM9 though......


  2. #47
    Member Array HandgunWorld's Avatar
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    I have to say, I've bee a big proponent of the .380 mousegun and in fact I did a entire podcast about it several months ago. However, I've carried my Kahr PM9 and Glock 19 about 95% of the time lately. After inteviewing Jon and really researching what he said, he makes some very valid points. My .380 is better than nothing, sure...but if I can get away with carrying a larger caliber, why not do it? Also, I just interviewed Jon again regarding the recent Florida School Board Shooting. He really researched the incident, studying videos and transcripts and makes some excellent points about the importance of "training." Listen to it and let me know what you think. It's the most recent episode (episode 102.)

    Bob Mayne
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  3. #48
    Member Array Foo909's Avatar
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    I had to part ways with my .380. It was a dream to carry...but I couldn't hit anything with it. I didn't trust it to "Stop" anyone else with a gun immediately. So now what to get with a limited budget....thinking S&W 442, but never owned a revolver before.

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=t? Also, I just interviewed Jon again regarding the recent Florida School Board Shooting. He really researched the incident, studying videos and transcripts and makes some excellent points about the importance of "training." Listen to it and let me know what you think. It's the most recent episode (episode 102.)

    Bob Mayne[/QUOTE]

    Bob, I just listen to episode 102 and I must say that caliber again did not matter as much as training. Bullet placement did not end the fight right away even though it was a 40 caliber S&W, wow three shots at center mass and the gun man still fires 11 rounds and shoot himself.

    Another good point is the gunman did bring a high capacity 9mm and plenty of ammo, the security guard and retired officer went to retrieve more ammo and a vest, just saying when you know you are going to a gunfight you don't bring a 380. The police showed up with rifles to the gunfight. Great interview.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foo909 View Post
    I had to part ways with my .380. It was a dream to carry...but I couldn't hit anything with it. I didn't trust it to "Stop" anyone else with a gun immediately. So now what to get with a limited budget....thinking S&W 442, but never owned a revolver before.
    The only way ANY handgun will physiologically stop someone "immediately" is via disruption of the central nervous system - the brain and/or upper spinal column. Shot placement...and penetration to the vitals. There is no magic bullet, nor magic caliber.

    If you place them properly, .380 FMJ will do fine. If you don't - caliber won't help you much.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  6. #51
    Senior Member Array MichSteve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    The only way ANY handgun will physiologically stop someone "immediately" is via disruption of the central nervous system - the brain and/or upper spinal column. Shot placement...and penetration to the vitals. There is no magic bullet, nor magic caliber.

    If you place them properly, .380 FMJ will do fine. If you don't - caliber won't help you much.
    So with what you said, would you bring a 380 to a situation like at the Florida School Board meeting?

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I would not go into any situation like that armed with only a handgun unless I had no choice. If caught in the situation with a .380, I would work with what I had.

    You'll note that the responding LEOs came with long guns - and properly so.

    There's a quote attributed to a Navy SEAL out there...not sure if it is true or not, but the point is valid - when asked about the "puny" 9mm they carry, the SEAL replied "If I shoot you twice in the chest and once in the head, caliber doesn't matter." He was referring to the Mozambique (aka "failure to stop") drill.

    We all need to stop fretting over caliber and whiz-bang bullet designs, and pay more attention to training, tactics, and marksmanship (self included).
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  8. #53
    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I would not go into any situation like that armed with only a handgun unless I had no choice. If caught in the situation with a .380, I would work with what I had.

    You'll note that the responding LEOs came with long guns - and properly so.

    There's a quote attributed to a Navy SEAL out there...not sure if it is true or not, but the point is valid - when asked about the "puny" 9mm they carry, the SEAL replied "If I shoot you twice in the chest and once in the head, caliber doesn't matter." He was referring to the Mozambique (aka "failure to stop") drill.

    We all need to stop fretting over caliber and whiz-bang bullet designs, and pay more attention to training, tactics, and marksmanship (self included).


    ^^^ +100 !!! God Bless

  9. #54
    VIP Member Array shockwave's Avatar
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    Well there was that story (which I can't find, unfortunately) about the woman coming home and surprising a burglar climbing out of her basement window.

    She drew a .380 on him and the first round hit his arm. He got angry and advanced on her. Her second round hit him in the sternum. He said, "you shot me," and sat down.

    Then there's the case of my neighbor who works in a high-risk profession. He carries a .380 when he can't carry anything bigger.

    So as long as you understand the limitations of your gun, the .380 might be a viable choice for you. I've drawn the line at 38 special and 9mm and always feel better with .357. That's a serious round for taking care of business.
    "It may seem difficult at first, but everything is difficult at first."

  10. #55
    Member Array Foo909's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    The only way ANY handgun will physiologically stop someone "immediately" is via disruption of the central nervous system - the brain and/or upper spinal column. Shot placement...and penetration to the vitals. There is no magic bullet, nor magic caliber.

    If you place them properly, .380 FMJ will do fine. If you don't - caliber won't help you much.
    Which is extremely hard to do with a compact .380 pocket pistol with no sights and a horrible trigger....

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array VBVAGUY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foo909 View Post
    Which is extremely hard to do with a compact .380 pocket pistol with no sights and a horrible trigger....



    That gives one a great excuse to practice, practice, practice !!! God Bless

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foo909 View Post
    Which is extremely hard to do with a compact .380 pocket pistol with no sights and a horrible trigger....
    I respectfully disagree. Add a CT laser, and the finger extension - both help the "shootability" of the LCP. I've posted pics on this forum before, where I shot several mags worth of shots into one ragged hole at 7 yards at a rapid fire rate. If you know how to shoot, the small .380 pistols are no issue. The key is good basics - especially a smooth steady trigger pull.

    Frankly, I'm tired of people blaming the gun for their poor technique (not you personally, but in general)...just like I'm tired of people complaining about the "thick" Glock grip which my petite wife (with small hands) can manage just fine...but that's another topic...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Add a CT laser, and the finger extension - both help the "shootability" of the LCP. I've posted pics on this forum before, where I shot several mags worth of shots into one ragged hole at 7 yards at a rapid fire rate...
    Arrrrrr! You're killin' me 10thmtn - you know I want a Body Guard 380 with the internal laser so bad I can taste it - yuuuk.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...Frankly, I'm tired of people blaming the gun for their poor technique (not you personally, but in general)...just like I'm tired of people complaining about the "thick" Glock grip which my petite wife (with small hands) can manage just fine...but that's another topic...
    Amen! Been saying that same thing myself.

    I also don't understand this uber reliance on the type of trigger a gun has.
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  14. #59
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    I agree. If you cannot hit anything unless you have a SA trigger, seems to me you need to get some training. You never know what kind of gun you might need to pick up and use...
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  15. #60
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Arrrrrr! You're killin' me 10thmtn - you know I want a Body Guard 380 with the internal laser so bad I can taste it - yuuuk.
    I've fondled one at a gun store. Personally, I'd rather get the LCP and add the CT Laserguard - you can now even get it from Ruger pre-mounted. I just prefer the instinctive activation of the CT lasers - just grip the gun normally, and the laser comes on. I also didn't care for the S&W's thumb safety - I just don't like thumb safeties, in general.

    And it's ok - there's nothing "yuuuk" about a pistol that can always be on you. My LCP only goes in the safe when I'm showering or sleeping.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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