Why did police switch to 40 S&W

This is a discussion on Why did police switch to 40 S&W within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo Actually, the Coasties have switched over the P229 DAK in .40S&W with the rest of the Department of Homeland Security (Secret ...

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Thread: Why did police switch to 40 S&W

  1. #31
    Member Array afcarpenter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    Actually, the Coasties have switched over the P229 DAK in .40S&W with the rest of the Department of Homeland Security (Secret Service being the exception...they maintained their contract for the P229 DA/SA in .357Sig).
    Apparently the folks I know didn't get that memo cause they definitely aren't packing that heat.

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  3. #32
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    I remember the FBI debate between the 10mm and the .40 "slow and weak" (the terminology of the day). The 10mm was far superior in performance, but many had trouble with recoil.
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    The border patrol carry 40 S&W and From what I hear get around 250 rounds of practice ammo a month,Remington 155 grn hollowpoint I've shot a few boxes thru my sig,amazing what you learn at a gun range that people from different LEO agencies shoot at
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  5. #34
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    Marketing. I fell for it when 40 S&W was the new rage. Glock 22 has long been gone after I decided it was an answer to a question that I wasn't ever really asking. Give me 45 ACP any day thank you.
    Last edited by Jeff F; December 29th, 2010 at 08:42 AM.
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afcarpenter View Post
    Apparently the folks I know didn't get that memo cause they definitely aren't packing that heat.
    They must be some sort of odd Coastie unit. The official issue pistol prior to the change to the P229 DAK was the Beretta M9. What is their assignment? I have never seen a Coastie with a P226. Not even Coast Guard Investigative Service (CGIS) Special Agents. Very odd and very curious.
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  7. #36
    Member Array afcarpenter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    They must be some sort of odd Coastie unit. The official issue pistol prior to the change to the P229 DAK was the Beretta M9. What is their assignment? I have never seen a Coastie with a P226. Not even Coast Guard Investigative Service (CGIS) Special Agents. Very odd and very curious.
    Gonzo
    Just got the email back from my guy over the CG. He is indeed CGIS (which I already knew) and is carrying a 226 in 9mm. He states that this isn't what other CGIS agents are doing but since he the 'old guy' with 20+ years Federal LE experience in multiple departments the CGIS just tolerates him doing what's he doing though he admitted that technically he should be carrying their sidearm. Sorry for the misinformation of sorts but he's the only Coastie that I know and have worked with and I was certain he wasn't carrying the same gun I do.

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afcarpenter View Post
    He is indeed CGIS (which I already knew) and is carrying a 226 in 9mm. He states that this isn't what other CGIS agents are doing but since he the 'old guy' with 20+ years Federal LE experience in multiple departments the CGIS just tolerates him doing what's he doing though he admitted that technically he should be carrying their sidearm.
    In 20 years of law enforcement, I have learned it is sometimes good to be an old fart who does not care what the bosses think. And, the further you get from the flagpole, the less they care.
    Gonzo
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  9. #38
    Member Array afcarpenter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    In 20 years of law enforcement, I have learned it is sometimes good to be an old fart who does not care what the bosses think. And, the further you get from the flagpole, the less they care.
    Gonzo
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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    In 20 years of law enforcement, I have learned it is sometimes good to be an old fart who does not care what the bosses think. And, the further you get from the flagpole, the less they care.
    Gonzo
    Another nice thing about working "graves" You get to work after they are in bed and leave work before they show up.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    The problem with the Miami shootout is that there is no evidence whatsoever that a .40 or .45 with the exact same placement as the 9mm SilverTip would have done any better than the 9mm. Let's remember that the .40 was not the round selected by the FBI after the Miami shootout - it was the 10mm - a much more powerful round. The .40 was a compromise.

    Let us not forget that there are number of very large agencies, the NYPD just to name one, that use the 124 gn 9mm and are very pleased with it's effectiveness. Another PD I know of had so much trouble with the gen 4 Glock 22s that they swapped them for 9mm G17s and are very pleased with them.
    It's a well known fact that the ammo selection during the Miami incident was to blame, no doubt about it. I'm sure a design similar to something we carry today would have fared better. Second, I do not believe the NYPD is a good indicator of anything. They have an unusually high number of stray rounds hitting various structures and people. Just because it's deemed "good enough" for the NYPD doesn't in any way indicate top performance. The Gold Dot itself is a good round, but I do not think this based on how the NYPD deploys it.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
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    A little more history. When the 10mm was under devlopement, the only ammo manufacturer that was interested was Norma in Sweden. The FBI adopted the 10mm for about 5 years and during that period the recoil complaints started. The FBI asked Norma for a weaker load which became known as FBI lite AKA "The FBI load". The 10mm is a .40 caliber bullet. S & W then designed a shorter cartridge that could still use the weaker FBI load but fit in a 9mm frame currently in use by pistol manufactures. The smaller cartridge also allowed higher capacity mags as well. The .40 retained enough of the ballistic characteristics of the 10mm to be acceptable to the FBI. The 40 S & W was "born" as a mainstream caliber when the FBI accepted it as their caliber of choice. When this happened many LE agencies adopted it as well and soon was in use by more LE than any other caliber.

    The 40 is a good compromise in effectiveness between the 9mm and the 45ACP, and it some ways, superior to the latter..

  13. #42
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    The 40 is a good compromise in effectiveness between the 9mm and the 45ACP, and it some ways, superior to the latter..
    in what way?

    2 people can go round and round all day trying to figure out which caliber is superior but the day will still end with both in disagreement. Not every .45 ACP cartridge has a 230 grain bullet that travels 800FPS yet that seems to be the only cartridge people compare their caliber to.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
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    I will not start a caliber war but IIRC the 40 has a flatter trajectory. I'm not going to argue about it. That''s not the point of the thread. Each caliber has it's fans. I have all 3

    Moving on.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinokur View Post
    I will not start a caliber war but IIRC the 40 has a flatter trajectory. I'm not going to argue about it. That''s not the point of the thread. Each caliber has it's fans. I have all 3

    Moving on.
    I was just curious. I didn't mean to sound aggressive, I believe people are over thinking the reason .40 is so popular with law enforcement.

    BTW the trajectory difference between .45 ACP and .40 S&W is negligible up to 50 yards.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array swinokur's Avatar
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    No worries and agreed. I was just explaining the story of the 40 and what some folks feel. I don't necessarily agree with them.

    I have a G30 and a G29 with a KKM 40 conversion barrel. I enjoy all 3 calibers.

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