Why did police switch to 40 S&W

This is a discussion on Why did police switch to 40 S&W within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm All you say is true, (I have it in writing) but the correct original velocity for the reduced 10mm load was ...

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Thread: Why did police switch to 40 S&W

  1. #91
    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    All you say is true, (I have it in writing) but the correct original velocity for the reduced 10mm load was a 180 grain jhp at 1050 fps, as was made by Federal upon request, this was in 1988. I was in Quantico at the time. It was a big buzz for all the gun people. The 12-18 of penetration was the crteria, but there was a caveat, that anything over 18 inches was NOT UNDESIRABLE, but less than 12 was.
    After the reduced load was tested against the 9mm, 38, and 45, it was declared the winner, and in 1989, the FBIs FTU announced at the SHOT SHOW the 10mm was selected, and the pistol was being produced by Smith.
    You are correct.
    While the BU said anything over 18" penetration was "not undesireable" the specs were that anything over 18" was not necessary in their testing. A lot of ammo could give over 18" penetration but that was not seen as neither desireable nor undesireable, it just wasn't within the spec requirements. It's no different than when we spec anything we're testing. If we write a spec for a car and require it to top end at 125 MPH and Ford say their entry will top end at 135 mph. OK, fine, exceeds the specs but doesn't give them any extra points for exceeding specs. That's the reason there are specs. There was a lot of ammo that wasn't tested in various calibers because of various reasons. Some valid. Some political (political with a small p, not party affiliation Political). Some based strictly on personal preconceived perceptions of a particular caliber from the field, ie, BU agents are no different than other gun people who all have their favorite calibers whether based on fact or unsubstantiated perceptions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Thank you glockman10mm. That does confirm that the FBI selected the 10mm and intended to issue it. But you stopped short, did the FBI ever actually issue the 10mm to it's agents, and if not, why not? Oh, and what's the current ballistics for the .40 the FBI now issues?
    The FBI did issue the 10mm in the 1076 and the loading issued was what is often referred to as the 10mm Lite, a reduced load. There were some function problems with the 1076 and eventually they were all pulled in.
    183 FBINA

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  3. #92
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I think that alot of confusion on this comes from the fact that there were so many things going on at once during the development and courtship of the 10mm, that truths get mixed up with one another.

    For instance, while it is true the first pistols produced for the 10mm fired the 10mm lite load, the pistols were developed from the already existing 45 acp S&W pistols, and alot of consideration was given to if that same frame could be used with the 10mm platform. This was early on before the 10mm lite was even considered.

    You have one group of R&D over here, another over there, same project... well that's how it all got screwed up IMO.

  4. #93
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    The problem I have with caliber selection such as the 40, is it was determined years ago that it was lacking. Why do we want to water down every cartridge? We take a cartridge that works great by a combo of things such as speed, weight, and then change it to make it easier to shoot, less muzzle flash, less recoil, and so on.

    The 9x25 Dillion shoots a 9mm bullet at 19 - 2200 fps. Slamming the 357 sig in the ground on it's head, yet noone wants that, but yet people get uptight and argue about cartridge effectivness, and stress over what they carry all the time.

    We shun what we know will be the end all answer, and sweat our caliber/ bullet selection. Kind of amusing really.

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