If the odds went up, would it affect which gun you carry?

This is a discussion on If the odds went up, would it affect which gun you carry? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Guantes Add a jacket pocket J frame to my EDC, switch my primary to the off side and spend a lot of ...

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Thread: If the odds went up, would it affect which gun you carry?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Add a jacket pocket J frame to my EDC, switch my primary to the off side and spend a lot of time with my hand in my pocket. With the increased threat I am not concerned so much with firepower or capacity and my edc and spare mags will cover that. What I do want is speed of deployment and few things are faster than a pocket gun, fired from the pocket.
    Thats the main strength and purpose of a pocket j frame, IMO. Doesnt matter how much ammo you have on your person if you are not able to make use of it. This is a classic example of using a smaller gun to fight your way to a larger one.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Thats the main strength and purpose of a pocket j frame, IMO. Doesnt matter how much ammo you have on your person if you are not able to make use of it. This is a classic example of using a smaller gun to fight your way to a larger one.
    Doesn't that require you to have your hand in your pocket before hand? I mean, surely starting with the hand outside your pocket, it is not faster to draw from a pocket than from the belt???
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  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    Add a jacket pocket J frame to my EDC, switch my primary to the off side and spend a lot of time with my hand in my pocket. With the increased threat I am not concerned so much with firepower or capacity and my edc and spare mags will cover that. What I do want is speed of deployment and few things are faster than a pocket gun, fired from the pocket.
    As I note it the first sentence, if the threat has risen to such a significant level, my hand will be spending much of its time in the pocket.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I have no crystal ball so I don't have anyway to determine "if the odds went up". I carry the same P229 odds up or down.
    I tend to agree with the above quote and my carry gun is a 1911. I have, however, had your question in mind for several years. If I knew that I was going into a threat area that was unavoidable, I would carry my Beretta 92 or my Taurus 92 with three extra mags. As many are in this forum, it is an interesting question.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Doesn't that require you to have your hand in your pocket before hand? I mean, surely starting with the hand outside your pocket, it is not faster to draw from a pocket than from the belt???
    The tactical advantage of the first strike usually favors the BG. Having your hand inconspicously in your pocket, but on the firearm itself is a much quicker response to a close range threat, and also levels the playing field a bit by giving you the advantage of bring force into play without the telegraphing motions of the draw. It gives you an almost instant response to the threat presented, which may afford you the oppurtunity to draw a primary weapon, if needed.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array zero's Avatar
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    My normal carry is currently between an MK9 and a SP101. When I go to the city (certain areas) I will change my carry to the XD9SC or XD45 with an extra mag.

    God forbid I/we have to lock an AK or AR (as buckeyeCPL mentioned) in the vehicle just in case we need it...and yet I have already thought about this a couple years ago.

  8. #37
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    Nope nothing that I don't carry already my good trusty M&P40... good capacity, good firepower, Load up all 4 mags and take them with me. Then say a few rosaries, kiss my mama, and tell her to call if I'm not back by dinner
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  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    Perhaps it is because I wear a badge, and started both policin' and carrying when this area was vying for murder capital of the USA, but I have long tended to pack heavy, and/or carry multiple weapons, so I cannot see upgrading my handgun equation if things became worse in society. I might try to have a long gun handier more of the time, so I really can use a handgun to fight my to it; in a reflexive defensive situation, it is always one's most accessible handgun that will most likely be the handiest weapon, even if there is an AR15 in the trunk, or hidden on the rear floorboard.

    As for this "rotation" thing, I used to have a wider variety of carry weapons, but have consolidated. All of my go-to handguns have DA triggers, with similar-enough trigger strokes, that practice with one benefits my performance with the others. My K-frame S&W Model 17 .22 LR sixgun serves as an understudy to my SIG P229s, and Ruger and S&W revolvers.

    For reference, there is an Israeli consulate in an office building almost within view of my home, and to the west, a very few miles, a notorious neighborhood, with a national reputation for random violence. I pass by a school once or twice a week where an "active shooter" ran amok in 1993, and dropped two local LEOs during his rampage. (Fortunately, he was NOT gunning for the children, only shooting at authority figures, and did not put finishing shots into anyone.) To buy name-brand gasoline, I have to leave my cozy, safe enclave, and visit places that have been the scenes of armed robberies. I reckon this is why I have rarely packed light, and therefore won't really need to upgrade if things gets worse.

  10. #39
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    My EDC/BuG = 642/LCP - 40 M&Pc/LCP But in the event there could be a higher threat level or going to be in unfamiliar area the EDC would be my full size M&P/M&Pc BUG for the interchangeable & high cap magazines. I'd also pull a page out of Glockmans playbook with the AR or Kel-Tec PL16 in the trunk, that bag stays ready.
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  11. #40
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    I switch between 2 guns, G23 in cooler weather and G27 when the clothes lighten up. Carry the same magazines so the only difference is 3 rounds summer to winter.
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  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    The tactical advantage of the first strike usually favors the BG. Having your hand inconspicously in your pocket, but on the firearm itself is a much quicker response to a close range threat, and also levels the playing field a bit by giving you the advantage of bring force into play without the telegraphing motions of the draw. It gives you an almost instant response to the threat presented, which may afford you the oppurtunity to draw a primary weapon, if needed.
    I'm clear on the theory, what's not clear is the practical implementation of it. First that assumes a lot of things that we may or may not have control of. For example, that we will be able to identify the threat soon enough to allow us to place our hand in our pocket and grasp our gun before the threat knows what's happening? Then by pocket, I assume you mean jacket pocket? I further assume you carry the gun loose in the pocket, i.e. without a holster, or that the holster will in no way keep your finger from engaging the trigger, nor will it impede the rotation of the cylinder? I would further assume that you have previously determined that the jacket will not restrict movement that could prevent rapid engagement of a threat, especially one positioned to the off side or too far away to hip shoot from the pocket?. I assume you must have your jacket on at all times? I further assume that one would walk around with his hand in his pocket a lot, or try to guess who's a threat and who isn't and either place the hand in the pocket at the first sign of a potential threat? I would presume you practice this technique on a regular basis? If so where do you get all the jackets? I presume this is only practical in mild seasons?

    Sounds rather nichey to me. Are you sure this actually works? I mean you have shot some from the pocket?
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  13. #42
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    I would still carry either the Colt Combat Commander or the SIG P220 but, I might start daily carrying extended 11 round spare magazines.

  14. #43
    VIP Member Array Guantes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I'm clear on the theory, what's not clear is the practical implementation of it. First that assumes a lot of things that we may or may not have control of. For example, that we will be able to identify the threat soon enough to allow us to place our hand in our pocket and grasp our gun before the threat knows what's happening? Then by pocket, I assume you mean jacket pocket? I further assume you carry the gun loose in the pocket, i.e. without a holster, or that the holster will in no way keep your finger from engaging the trigger, nor will it impede the rotation of the cylinder? I would further assume that you have previously determined that the jacket will not restrict movement that could prevent rapid engagement of a threat, especially one positioned to the off side or too far away to hip shoot from the pocket?. I assume you must have your jacket on at all times? I further assume that one would walk around with his hand in his pocket a lot, or try to guess who's a threat and who isn't and either place the hand in the pocket at the first sign of a potential threat? I would presume you practice this technique on a regular basis? If so where do you get all the jackets? I presume this is only practical in mild seasons?

    Sounds rather nichey to me. Are you sure this actually works? I mean you have shot some from the pocket?
    You set the environment. Sometimes circumstances require "nichey" responses.
    1. The hand stays in the pocket most of the time when out and about.
    2. Yes, jacket pocket.
    3. There is no problem re jacket pocket fire, except that it destroys the jacket and after the first one or two rounds the hand extends through what use to be the pocket.
    4. The hand in the pocket will not restrict movement and especially rapid engagement. A pivot to the off side as not a problem. The distance you can engage with hip shooting depends on your attributes and practice regimen. How far away would one expect to engage. Threats usually manifest themselves close. There is always the draw and engagement from the weak side with the full size weapon.
    5. Hand in pocket most of the time covered previously.
    6. I have done it. A friend made a video of pocket and purse shooting. It is virtually the same as hip shooting so it is not necessary to shoot up a bunch of jackets.
    7. Some places jackets light or heavy or shirtjacs are used ten or more months of the year.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    I'm clear on the theory, what's not clear is the practical implementation of it. First that assumes a lot of things that we may or may not have control of. For example, that we will be able to identify the threat soon enough to allow us to place our hand in our pocket and grasp our gun before the threat knows what's happening? Then by pocket, I assume you mean jacket pocket? I further assume you carry the gun loose in the pocket, i.e. without a holster, or that the holster will in no way keep your finger from engaging the trigger, nor will it impede the rotation of the cylinder? I would further assume that you have previously determined that the jacket will not restrict movement that could prevent rapid engagement of a threat, especially one positioned to the off side or too far away to hip shoot from the pocket?. I assume you must have your jacket on at all times? I further assume that one would walk around with his hand in his pocket a lot, or try to guess who's a threat and who isn't and either place the hand in the pocket at the first sign of a potential threat? I would presume you practice this technique on a regular basis? If so where do you get all the jackets? I presume this is only practical in mild seasons?

    Sounds rather nichey to me. Are you sure this actually works? I mean you have shot some from the pocket?
    LOL, its really no more nichey than alot of other tactics taught. The idea is your hand is on the gun from the very beginning. Pocket holster? Depends. The idea of quick threat identification is invalidated by the very idea of self defensive, where the bad guy has the upper hand, and presents the same problem as far as application no matter the mode of carry. But having said that, it is always faster to bring a weapon into play that your hand is on than sweepin the cover garment and making the draw stroke.

    By the topic of your thread, the assumption for this technique is considered a raised response level to the percieved higher odds. The only difference is this technique favors a tactical advantage of quick first shot, discreet, yet ready to fire instantly without alot of give away movement, over increased firepower as many would automatical assume to go to.

    Imagine a guy walking up to you crossing the parking lot, knife or gun in hand , saying give me your..BOOM!. Lights out. How was he to know you already had your weapon ready and all you had to do was pull the trigger?

    The point is, this is a very good upgrade to make to deal with real everyday type encounters, (not Die Hard type scenarios). Yoy have upgraded your option while still maintaining carry of an everday carry piece.

    Yes, I have fired from my pocket, just to test it out. Was a little warm. 2nd shot caught it on fire, but was easily patted out. A pretty small trade off if some one is in your face or very close to you and you need them off quickly.

    I would use a pocket holster if I chose to draw from the trouser pocket, but it really depends on what you are anticipating.

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    For those of us that operate on a 'rotation' basis because we like a lot (too many) of different guns and hence rotate our carry guns, I wonder if we thought there was an increased chance of a deadly confrontation(s), would we carry the gun currently in our rotation or switch to a 'go-to' gun.

    The reason I ask is I faced this situation once and realized in reponse to the elevated situation that I was changing to a specific gun.

    And let's limit this to non-SHTF situations and that we will not be carrying a long gun or fighting our way back to a long gun. Just life as normal, except an increased risk of a deadly confrontation.

    An example:
    Say gas goes up to $5/gal and food prices go up significantly while the economy remains in it's present strained shape. I suspect this would produce more people that are more desperate that feel forced to do things they might not normally do.

    And a personal example:
    My family was under a specific threat because we tried to help someone and there was a bad element that disapproved of our 'interference' and could seek, and actually threatened reprisal. Thank goodness that did not materialize! At the time I think I was carrying a P229R DAK. I went home and switched to my Glock 17. Yet I tend to view the Sig Classics as the most reliable, dependable, rugged pistols made. So it was kind of puzzling to me why I went to my G17.

    Thoughts?
    Thoughts? Well....initially, I think this is a good post to think about. If gasoline goes to $5 a gallon, I'm thinking the S has already HTF. I remember what happened on 9-11 in my neighborhood with the gasoline ordeal. That's the closest I've come to the real SHTF ordeal and I don't wish to see it again.
    Odds against me escalating? From yellow, to orange, to red?
    Affecting which gun I carry? Well, I might just move up to carrying several and the BUG with spare mags for all. Or carry my usual and start wearing a trench coat and a shoe-string shoulder holster for my AK.
    You act on your own according to conditions. Look anyone in the face these days and you'll know the fight will be on when it comes to the last bag of sugar or loaf of bread. Forget the gas pumps. In these days, even your best friend will be someone not to trust. If you are competing for survival then everyone is your enemy. Even the most docile person you know can become evil in an instant. Their survival means the end of yours. You might think the risks are high for our soldiers in foreign lands, but you aint seen nothing yet until you come up against your neighbor fighting for survival. I look into people's eyes every day, and realize what they are capable of and what they can become when pushed to the limit. Every time I think of the "zombie hoards", I'm thinking this is each and every time I go out in public since I can't avoid it at this time. I'm so tired of thinking, I don't dream anymore. Once you truly know what your fellow man is capable of, you'll understand. Evil has it's way of summoning the weak at the right time. In a world where everyone is weak, you best beware and you best be strong. Switching carry guns won't make you the army you'll need to be in these times. It may comfort you in ways, but I've always been a fan of saving one for myself. I have no wish for being taken alive. The zombies can eat me when I'm gone.

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