.45 Hardball as a carry round? - Page 4

.45 Hardball as a carry round?

This is a discussion on .45 Hardball as a carry round? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by katmandoo122 Of course, the USMC didn't care about over-penetration back then (or now, FTMP), and also, the Hague Convention prohibited them from ...

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Thread: .45 Hardball as a carry round?

  1. #46
    Member Array GunByte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katmandoo122 View Post
    Of course, the USMC didn't care about over-penetration back then (or now, FTMP), and also, the Hague Convention prohibited them from being carried and used. I'm not saying that FMJ won't do the job...up to an hour ago, I thought it would. The limited research I've done since them indicates that it is significantly less effective. The fact that the USMC didn't use them has more to do with rules than effectiveness.

    I will concede that if I were designing a handgun projectile for military use by the general rifleman, I would design a high speed, penetrating round, but for personal defense in a one-off scenario (the OP's question), hollow point is much better due to its effectivness and lower chance of overpenetration.
    I know that this is an old thread but as someone who escorted US Army prisoners I have to say that the only time I carried and used a 1911 was in situations where there were civilians or other US military around. I used my M-16 against the VC. Ballistic gel is not a human. Skin is tough. Muscle is tough and bones can make bullets do all sorts of things. If I follow the logic of some, I should not use my Golden Sabers against anyone thiner than 14". Another factor is the amount of energy left after a bullet passes through a human body according to many of the figures posted. Many JHP will penetrate more than the average human body. In combat I have seen bullets hit bone and exit immediately after being deflected in a different direction. However in all my combat experience I have never seen a bullet penetrate one person and wound another. The real danger is shots that miss, not those that hit. Just though I would interject some real life experience in to the discussion.

    P.S. - If you listen to some posters they make it sound like a FMJ .45 is not as good as a 9mm JHP. Even without expansion the .45 round is very effective. I know from experience how effective it is.
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  2. #47
    New Member Array Colfirearms's Avatar
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    I have attempted to place a link to an excellent article written by Chuck Hawks about this topic. Hope it works.
    Basically, it recommends JHP ammunition for defensive carry exclusively, the exception being the pistols that will not function properly without FMJ ammunition. The rationale is that ALL kinetic energy of the bullet is delivered to and absorbed by the target; thus, it delivers greater stopping power. JHP ammunition is NOT more lethal. It is safer to use by reducing the likelihood of an exiting bullet striking an unintended target.

    I hope the link works.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/colum...61400293970275

  3. #48
    Member Array FLMOPE's Avatar
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    As an MP many years ago I saw a vehicle that had been shot at fleeing a crime scene by .45 The bullet(military issue FMJ) entered just to the right of the left taillight, passed through the passenger compartment, nicked the drivers seat, went through the dash and firewall never to be found. I never underestimated what a .45 would actually do after that day.
    "Only the Sith deal in absolutes."

    "My dog is smarter than your honor student."

  4. #49
    Member Array _Hawkeye_'s Avatar
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    My friends Glock .45 wont feed anything but FMJ, so that is what he carries.
    English is my second language, I have been told my use of it is harsh, apologies if this is the matter.

    You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun

  5. #50
    Member Array fail_187's Avatar
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    Great topic! Lots of good info and different views to look at.
    Currently I carry hard-ball in my .45 but gonna get some hollow points for it after I get more lead down ranger.
    I know I was impressed when I went shooting one day w/ my Taurus PT845 at a buddys junk yard. We were shooting at a old crown vic police cruiser. They had it all striped out and used it as a pond jumper... lol. Anyways, we had the PT845, and a Taurus .40. My slugs entered the driver door and exited the passenger door, mind you all the internal parts were removed it was just the steel doors w/o the door panels.

    Thanks for all the info!
    -jared

  6. #51
    Member Array MLittle's Avatar
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    If you look at ballistic data (45 ACP Stopping Power) based on actual shootings, you'll see that a quality 45acp hollowpoint is a much more effective round than fmj for self defense. Looks like 62% one shot drops for FMJ and above 90% for hollowpoints. This is in addition to the benefits of hollowpoints not penetrating walls, bg's etc. and possibly injuring innocent bystanders, neighbors, etc. I will agree that if your handgun will not reliably cycle hollowpoints it would be better to go with fmj, but for me, my pistols all handle Speer 230gr Gold Dots well so that's what I carry.

  7. #52
    Member Array gunfighter48's Avatar
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    A few years ago when JHPs were hard to get in the local area, I carried 45 FMJ in my 1911s. I never felt at a disadvantage or afraid of over penetration. You can find all types of studies about over penetration, and they can all be slanted to the authors wishes. There was a thread on Glock Talk some time ago by a police surgeon and the upshot was that the 45 FMJ put more bad guys down with fewer shots than any other caliber or type of bullet. He said he had been through 1200 autopsies. I use JHPs when I can get some that feed reliably in my 1911s but FMJs will do just fine when I can't get JHPs. If you don't survive the gunfight over penetration won't be a worry.
    gunfighter 48
    A 45 may not expand but it will never be smaller than .45!!!
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  8. #53
    Member Array _Hawkeye_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MLittle View Post
    If you look at ballistic data (45 ACP Stopping Power) based on actual shootings, you'll see that a quality 45acp hollowpoint is a much more effective round than fmj for self defense. Looks like 62% one shot drops for FMJ and above 90% for hollowpoints. This is in addition to the benefits of hollowpoints not penetrating walls, bg's etc. and possibly injuring innocent bystanders, neighbors, etc. I will agree that if your handgun will not reliably cycle hollowpoints it would be better to go with fmj, but for me, my pistols all handle Speer 230gr Gold Dots well so that's what I carry.
    There are some significant issues with that study, the data may support the conclusions, but there are other conclusions that may be supported as well. I dont necessarily disagree with the results, but if you are going to do science, make it good science.
    English is my second language, I have been told my use of it is harsh, apologies if this is the matter.

    You know what stops a bad guy with a gun? A good guy with a gun

  9. #54
    Distinguished Member Array hardluk1's Avatar
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    If you own any centerfire handgun that is not capible of funtiong with HP ammo it makes me wonder why it would be carried. Why would a person use a bullet they may not stop a person quickly enough for them to complete what they had intended. Send it back to be fixed or find the hp ammo it will cycle. Not haveing the option of useing hp ammo and then justifing it is crasy and could be diedly for the owner one day. I am way more comfortable carry'n a 9mm with bullet that opens beyound 1/2" an shows ragged edges to encrease trama than any thing subsonic with a fmj. That also comes with 20 years of hunting hogs with a 357mag revolver from 125gr hp up to 180hc and learning how different bullets react on real live tissue. If your 45 wil not atleast throw a soft lead SWC change handguns.

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