Is it just me or is there a lot of superficial hype about Glock’s gen 4?

This is a discussion on Is it just me or is there a lot of superficial hype about Glock’s gen 4? within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by sentioch As for the recoil comment, I read this which makes perfect sense to me: There are dual rate spring assemblies sold ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39

Thread: Is it just me or is there a lot of superficial hype about Glock’s gen 4?

  1. #16
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    Quote Originally Posted by sentioch View Post
    As for the recoil comment, I read this which makes perfect sense to me:
    There are dual rate spring assemblies sold aftermarket for various guns like the Ber 92 that do reduce PERCEIVED recoil. It's because the effect of multiple springs is to give variable spring rate. This is because initially, only one spring resists movement then the second one kicks in at a point farther back. The slide moves quickly at fire (little spring resistance) which acts as a recoil absorber for the initial firing pulse. The resistance increases as the slide goes farther back, stopping it short of frame inpact. The total recoil energy is the same, but the initial pulse is less which most people feel as a softer recoil.
    That depends. I ran this by a colleague that, like myself is an engineer. He immediately responded that it's very unlikely that spring modification such as a dual spring system would reduce felt recoil.

    I pretty much explained the very concept you quoted. If you give up something somewhere, you have to make up for it somewhere else. In the example quoted, the slide will have a high initial velocity due to only one spring being compressed. What happens when the next spring engages? An abrupt change in spring resistance. The slide would be slowed abruptly which would increase the rearward force against the frame producing more rearward motion and hence increased recoil.

    While it is possible that a human may percieve a high short impulse different than a lesser, linear impulse, that hasn't been substantiated as far as I know. But, this sort of thing generates all kinds of unsubstantiated hype that may not be true at all except in someone's mind.

    Here's some actual indication from shooting from Jag45's post in this thread: "As for precived recoil, most thought that if there was only a difference it was only slightly different in the weak hand part of the course. I had fired a friends earlier, only a mag full at 15 yards, and really could not tell any difference."
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    687
    I just ordered a Glock 19 Gen 4. I used the LEO Discount Program so the Gen4 and the Gen3 were the same price. I figure if I don't like the Gen4 I can easily do a straight trade for a Gen3.

    I actually really like the new grip texture.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  4. #18
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    Quote Originally Posted by dsee11789 View Post
    I just ordered a Glock 19 Gen 4....I actually really like the new grip texture.
    Me too. I already have a RTF2 and really like that too. I understand it's pretty hard on clothes, but I haven't seen any issues with it so far. As I understand it, the gen 4 texture was in response from owners claiming the RTF2 was too aggressive. Kinda like the three bears I guess - this one's not enough, this one's too much, but this one is just right.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    Interesting posts.

    The only thing that I don't like about Glock, is that it's hard for me to reach the trigger. The Gen 4 didn't solve that. I bought a 2nd Gen 3 instead.

    Regarding the recoil spring; perhaps it doesn't actually reduce felt recoil, but reduces muzzle flip, which in turn people perceive to be less recoil?

    I dunno I'm not an engineer, nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn...
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    687
    I've also heard that the original Gen4 spring was very heavy and meant to be used with Duty / SD Ammo. 03 Spring System I believe?

    People were complaining because the Gen4s were malfunctioning on cheap range ammo.

    Thats why they have the two different springs now. I believe all the new guns are shipping with the lighter spring. 04 Spring System.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  7. #21
    OD*
    OD* is online now
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    10,687
    I wasn't using cheap range ammunition in mine.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
    ~ Tiger McKee

  8. #22
    VIP Member
    Array C hawk Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    W. Washington
    Posts
    3,552
    Quote Originally Posted by Tangle View Post
    Thanks Hawk, I'm carrying my G17 RTF2 right now - I love Glocks too - there's so much to like. But I agree exactly with what you said about the gen 4. I was not aware of the recoil spring issue. I know Glock had some real issues with the G22 gen 4 and I think the springs had something to do with that too.

    I can understand the pressure to deal with the grip issue, but to me they compromised a time tested, trusted design. I guess that doesn't mean the gen 4s won't prove themselves, but they're gonna have to in order to claim the reputation of the pre gen 4s. BTW, hawk check your PM.
    Tangle,

    Your PM inbox is full I can't reply
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  9. #23
    VIP Member
    Array C hawk Glock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    W. Washington
    Posts
    3,552
    I was going to mention that using cheap range ammo is not an acceptable excuse. If I were to post issues about a 1911 on this forum and gave that same excuse, all the Glock fan's would be saying that 1911's are not reliable.

    My Gen 2's, and 3's never had an issue with WWB..... Just sayin......
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  10. #24
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,886
    I'd have to disagree with Tangle's opinion. True, most of the Gen 4 changes are more cosmetic than functional, but these are in response to customer concerns and complaints.

    The no-backstrap Gen 4 four is not the size of a comparable Gen 3; it's comparable to the SF-sized grips. I can most definitely tell the difference between a Gen 3 G22 and the Gen 4 sans additional backstraps. To me, it feels better than the SF versions.

    The grip texture was changed in answer to many comments that it was slippery when "bloody," although I don't know how many have actually had Glocks slip from their bloody hands.

    The "reversible" mag release should satisfy the lefties to a better extent. If you're a rightie, it's a non-issue. Did it need to be enlarged? I don't think so, but I suppose so do.

    Functionally, the only real change is the addition of the dual recoil spring, which has worked out fine in the older models that utilized it (like my G30). Whether it softens recoil of the already soft-shooting Glock is a matter of personal opinion.

    As in any product, changes cost money, and it has to be made up for somewhere. I haven't seen a $110 jump in prices between the two Generations (unless the store was trying to unload the Gen 3s), so I'd question the prices of that particular business.

    And as to the interchangability of mags? Well, few of the parts of a '77 Ford will fit a 2011 model. That's the way things work as time goes by. I suppose if you're good with a Dremal you could adapt a Gen 3 mag to fit the Gen 4, but the cost of mags is so irrelevant in the overall cost of firearms.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    I've handled the G30 and the G30SF. I could tell a difference, but I cannot tell the same difference between the Gen 3 and 4.

    I guess that the different dynamics in a person's hand may be significant. Some may have longer fingers than others, while having a smaller palm. There are so many different dynamics. Rollo definitely felt a difference; but I didn't.

    As a side note, the difference in price that I saw was only ten dollars, but that was at the same store. Tangle's prices come from two different stores, hence the large discrepancy.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    564
    Over the years I've owned three different Glocks myself. My shooting was always rather indifferent with them and when I really cracked down and did some serious range time and training I developed tendonitis in my right thumb from it. Oddly enough some of the other Glock shooters I was training with were gobbling Motrins like they were M&M's at the class I was attending. Or perhaps it's not so strange that they were doing that after all...

    I'll admit that perhaps you can freeze a Glock in a solid block of mud, chisel it off and it'll shoot but that seems to be a pretty extreme way to carry concealed.

  13. #27
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    15,886
    While I couldn't feel any real difference between the Standard and SF grips, I could definitely feel it in the Gen 4 between no backstrap versus either additional. My guess is it's very much an individual feeling. But I do appreciate that the idea makes the grip more adaptable to more hands.

    No painful thumb for me, at least not yet.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  14. #28
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ...but these are in response to customer concerns and complaints.
    I said that very thing - to wit, and I quote, "...As I understand it, the gen 4 texture was in response from owners claiming the RTF2 was too aggressive...."

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ...The no-backstrap Gen 4 four is not the size of a comparable Gen 3; it's comparable to the SF-sized grips. I can most definitely tell the difference between a Gen 3 G22 and the Gen 4 sans additional backstraps. To me, it feels better than the SF versions.
    I'm gonna go measure the Gen 4, I couldn't tell a difference in the gen 3 and gen 4, but I am curious enough to run to a nearby gun store and measure the gen 4 grip - either today, or more likely tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ....The grip texture was changed in answer to many comments that it was slippery when "bloody," although I don't know how many have actually had Glocks slip from their bloody hands....
    That's my understanding as well. That resulted in the RTF2, which apparently was abrasive on clothes, so Glock went with a less agressive texture on the gen 4s.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    ....And as to the interchangability of mags?.....but the cost of mags is so irrelevant in the overall cost of firearms.
    I disagree. The cost of the gun is $500. The cost for the four mags I'd have to buy to have the seven (or eight) I already have for the gen 3's would cost near $100 or 20% of the cost of the gun.

    It may not be relevant, not because of the cost, but because we have learned that the gen 3's will fit the gen 4's if the mag release isn't reversed.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    3,005
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The no-backstrap Gen 4 four is not the size of a comparable Gen 3; it's comparable to the SF-sized grips. I can most definitely tell the difference between a Gen 3 G22 and the Gen 4 sans additional backstraps. To me, it feels better than the SF versions.
    I was thinking the same thing but since I don't have a gen 3 to measure I didn't want to open my mouth. The two grips feel drastically different to me.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

  16. #30
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I was thinking the same thing but since I don't have a gen 3 to measure I didn't want to open my mouth. The two grips feel drastically different to me.
    It is my understanding that the gen 4 is basically an SF model, which of course does have a reduced grip, but when I looked at the gen 3 and gen 4, I couldn't tell any difference, so I assumed the gen 4s were not as reduced as we might think. Then I measured the trigger reach on a RTF2 and got within 0.03" of Glock's spec'd reach for the gen 4.

    I just measured it again and again got 2.79" for my gen 3; the Glock spec for the trigger reach on a gen 4 is 2.76" which means the trigger reach is essentially the same for a gen 3 and gen 4. However, it may be that the lower grip is slimmed down some. I can't wait to measure the girth and width of a gen 4. But whatever we may find, the trigger reach of a gen 3 and gen 4 is essentially the same. So for short hands.......
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 14
    Last Post: December 16th, 2010, 07:51 AM
  2. Is 'Cold Steel' all hype?
    By r0rtiz in forum Defensive Knives & Other Weapons
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: February 21st, 2010, 08:27 PM
  3. I hope this is no more than media hype
    By P95Carry in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 8th, 2007, 11:31 PM
  4. Extreme Shok Anti-Terrorist Ammo....Truth or Hype?
    By Trebla in forum Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: March 31st, 2006, 10:13 AM

Search tags for this page

021 rsa spring
,
are glocks just hype
,
glock 17 counterbore
,
glock 19 hype
,

glock 19 trigger reach

,
glock gen 4 mag sleeve
,
glock gen 4 magazine sleeve
,
glock gen 4 trigger reach vs 1911
,

glock hype

,

glock magazine sleeve gen 4

,
trigger reach glock 19
,
trigger reach in inches list
Click on a term to search for related topics.