This is a discussion on Sig P250 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Listen guys, this P250 bashing is old stuff. There are guys that have thousands of rounds through P250s without a problem. Overwhelming positive reports from ...
March 10th, 2011 08:36 AM
Listen guys, this P250 bashing is old stuff. There are guys that have thousands of rounds through P250s without a problem. Overwhelming positive reports from P250 owners completely refute the negative claims. These things are selling like hot cakes. The naysayers use old arguments or the same arguments that no longer apply.
According to the naysayers the P250 was supposed to be unshootable, unfixable, and dead by now. Sig was purportedly dropping the price to dump them on unaware buyers - sounds just like something Sig would do doesn't it. But just the opposite has happened. These things are selling like hot cakes, the ones with problems Sig is fixing at Sig's expense. I know - my compact 9mm started having extraction problems within 100 rounds. I called Sig, they sent me a UPS overnight mailing label and off it went to them. It came back 10 days later, to my house. They had replaced the extractor, which was the problem I was having, but they also replaced the trigger bar, safety lever, and hammer. Didn't cost me a cent. Since then I have put 800 flawless rounds through my compact and another 600 rounds in a full size with the same FCU. All flawless.
There have been some problems. Sig fixed them, period. As of Dec 2010, all p250s will have all updated parts. As you look around gun boards, as I do, I've seen the tone change from problematic to flawless. People actually try the P250 trigger and are surprised how well they can shoot it. And as for accuracy claims, Let me just give you one example from Bruce Gray of GrayGuns, you all do know him right? Here's his take on the P250:
"Hi and thanks for asking for my opinion. As it happens, Ive made a sort of study of the phenomena associated with what makes pistols accurate, or not. It's kind of been a thing with me throughout my long career, and continues to the present time as Roy and I make repeated trips to our 50 yard bench to group-test the P250 I'm setting up for the Bianchi Cup, as I'll get to in a minute here.
I think Roy hit on one key factor that does seem to make a difference in inherent accuracy potential, namely whether the frame rails front and rear are solidly conjoined in a unitized insert (as in the P-250), separately molded in (as in some other polymer framed guns), or there's no metal rear rails at all (as in the XD). So, perhaps flexing of the grip frame during initial recoil / movement of the barrel might add to whatever other barrel-time effects might influence mechanical consistency and resulting accuracy. My experience has supported this theory, that grip frame flex can and does impair inherent accuracy potential.
I know the Glock fans (and I am a bit of one myself in all reality) will scream that they shoot Glocks better than anything else and theirs is superbly accurate. I'm sure the first is absolutely true, and the second assertion might be, but probably not by the standards we can apply through objective bench testing. I have shot some Glocks, XD's and so forth, and have yet to see either pistol consistently produce sub-5" 50 yard groups in factory trim, and often not a whole lot better than 3.5" to 4" when re-fitted or re-barreled. I don't think bore quality is the issue. I have never personally seen any polymer-framed pistol of any type and degree of fitting that could shoot better than 3" with any make barrel.
But, I have come to believe that the relatively light weight of polymer pistols, that is, the lower half anyway, contributes to their generally demonstrable inferiority in relative accuracy when fired from human hands, if not their absolute accuracy potential on a purely mechanical level.
As an example, let's take that P250 Fullsize 9mm. It's got a long sight radius, and has been fitted about perfectly with no lockup float and minimal side movement of the frame to slide. Such a fit in a conventional P-series should buy us 2.5" at fifty yards or so. However, the same ammo that groups under 2" out of a newish X5 9mm is giving us little better than 4" out of my tweaked-up P250. That's really great for practical uses but still won't quite cut it for Bianchi. My personal 1911 is giving me well under 2" as expected, so at least I know I can still shoot a group! I was getting worried.
I need to get consistent sub-2.5" groups out of the P250 with good ammo by race day and think we can do it, but that might not be in the cards. Inconsistencies from barrel time effects is a possible culprit: any change in the frame's relative resistance to recoil generated by the slide assembly is magnified by the light weight and flex of the system. The P250's receiver is a clever gage that clips into the plastic grip; the cage is rigid, but but it still has some slight play within the grip even still. However, I think the P250 in particular offers some advantages over, or rather lacks the disadvantages of, most other polymer framed pistols. That receiver cage is at least rigid unto itself, and that must be a good thing.
More likely in this case, though by no means bad, my particular P250's factory barrel isn't quite as accurate as I wish it was for my extreme purposes. It happens, which is why we'll test others.
So, in any event, I do believe quality all-metal pistols (I.E. P220) offer an edge in rigidity and inherent absolute accuracy potential over comparable (I.E. G-21) polymer-framed guns. Does that edge necessarily equate to higher qualification scores? I frankly doubt that the difference in inherent accuracy made as much difference as their relative shoot-ability in your hands, to be honest. It seems you shoot the P220 well, and that's what really counts to you.
Here's another example - me and my P250 .45 fs, count the number of malfunctions as you watch - I'll save you some trouble - there aren't any:
And maybe some targets shot with the P250 9mm fs. These represent 50 shots - 10 shots each at 3, 5, 7, 10, 15 yards at an indoor range. I'm a little better outdoors. Off hand in an 'I' stance.
So please don't be misled by the false claims that a P250 can't be shot accurately or is inaccurate. Lot's of P250 owners are declaring how well and how accurately they can shoot the p250. Of course they actually own them and shoot them - what could they possibly know about the accuracy, shootabiity and reliability of the p250?
The P250 has now been spotted in a FAM's holster recently, on the job, at an airport and when an airport worked asked him about it, he had nothing bad to say about it. Kinda looks like the FAMs have issued the P250s after all. Of course we don't want to put too much confidence into one sighting - it's just a starting place.
Sig has made several special package deals, one a mag extension adaptor to adapt a full size mag to a compact, and now available is an adaptor to adapt the compact size mag to a subcompact. You know the only problem with these? I tried to buy a set (3) for my compact and they were backordered? You know why? The first batch Sig had sold out quicker than they anticipated!
The also offer a .40 cal P250 compact with an additional .357 sig barrel and three magazines. These are/were available from Bud's for $419. Still sound like Sig is dumping the p250?
Then there's the Holland torture tests of the P250. The tests involve 100 officers and at the end of the testing, the Sig P250 was chosen over all the competition.
Massad Ayoob writes about a large west coast agency that torture tested the P250 and in Mas's own words, "...it passed in flying colors."
And here we are in March of 2011 and Sig is not only still manufacturing the P250, they have a P250 .45 SC in the works. Does that sound like Sig can't sell the P250? They are offering accessories, such as the mag extension kits for both the compact and just of late for the subcompacts. Does that sound like Sig is dumping the P250 or they are having trouble selling P250s?
Becasue the frame for the P250 is not a firearm, and it sells for $39.99, many p250 owners are 'experimenting'. Several have cut the muzzle end of the frame a bit to create a unique look, some have adapted compact frames to subcompact slides to gain a sc with a rail and compact capacity. I recently ordered a fs 9mm frame with the small grip. I called Sig, they had it in stock, and it will be here Monday. I'm thinking about cutting the frame to fit the compact slide to make a 'commander' size P250. Of course the 'commander' coming from the Commander size 1911 - full size grip, 3/4" shorter barrel. So I'd have a P250 9mm Commander.
Although, I'm a little conflicted because the extension mag kit I ordered from my compact does essentially the same thing. BTW, you can buy the complete frame, i.e. with mag release installed, for $39.99 at OMB's Express Police Supply as well as other parts for the P250. Top Gun Supply is another good resource and for complete P250s, Bud's is a good source. BTW, the exchange kits went from $249 to $285. I wonder if that's indicative that the p250 is about to go up in price.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
March 10th, 2011 09:37 AM
Oh, and how could I have forgotten this: I have a P229 E2 SRT, Sig P229 & P226s in both DA/SA and DAK; I have an M&P with the DCAEK AND RAM kit installed, I have a PX4, Glocks, H&Ks USP and P2000, an FNX-9, and a several 1911s I built myself. All top notch, high quality guns. The last time I shot my M&P fs .45ACP, the recoil was so harsh compared to my other .45s I traded it right after I shot it for the FNX-9.
So of all the choices, what do I carry? Well for the longest time a P250 compact 9mm. I can't shoot any of the other guns any more accurately than I can the P250. Then I found a guy with a 2sum that didn't want the full size kit, so I bought it. I easily removed the FCU from the compact and easily installed it the full size kit and after a number of flawless rounds, with superb accuracy, I started carrying the full size. I'd carry the compact, but I like the bigger gun.
I'm glad you like the P250. I'm warming up to it myself (what great ergonomics!), and hope I can get it shooting well enough to take it and make a serious bid for the championship. I need sub-2.5" at fifty yards to attempt that goal with assurance, but so far have plateaued at about 4.5". SIG us sending me new barrels to fit and test. I'm cautiously optimistic."
As it turns out the new factory barrel didn't help, so as Bruce put it - he's putting the P250 aside until next year. I think the time frame is just a little tight for him this year.
But it speaks volumes for the P250 that of all the polymer guns out there, Bruce believed the P250 would have the most inherent accuracy. From the numbers he got with it, he's right.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
March 10th, 2011 10:57 PM
I saw your Box on a previous post. I can tell you are a person of good taste and humor if you own a boxer! By the way, mine is a damn good guard dog. First line of defense baby!
Originally Posted by jbr
Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!
March 11th, 2011 06:55 AM
I think dog people will know what I mean when I say, "dogs are special people." The only reason my 'net' name is Tangle, is because it's in honor of a special friend, my dog Tangle. When I first got her, she kept herself or her leash 'tangled' up in my legs, so she got the name Tangle.
I'm too young to be this old!
Getting old isn't good for you!
March 24th, 2011 11:42 AM
I bought a SIg P250 about a year ago and probably have 1000 rounds through it. I love it. Never a single issue, never a FTF, FTE, or a stovepipe. It shoots GREAT. I am struggling with some concealment options for it but looking at Tucker leather and think I might have found a winner. FWIW, if you like the fell of it - go for it, I dont buy into negative hype ona gun until I have put some rounds through it for myself. My $.02 - its one of my favorite handguns.
August 22nd, 2011 01:25 AM
A better saying would be: Would you ask a fish what it is like to live on land? No! You do not ask a person who has no experience on a specific topic for advice nor should they be eager to give it as would be foolish. If you have not shot it do not give advice. I have not shot a Glock so I'm not going to give advice on it. I have shot an XD and Sig so I can give advice. I have owned a p250 Full 45 and it is an amazing gun especially for the money. After 1250 rounds from Remington, Winchester, Federal and acouple other companies I have had NO issues. That also comes with taking care of your pistol. If you do not it does not matter who makes it, it will fail eventually. Most shot at one time 250, groups at 30yds within 2 inches vert. and horiz., everything stock. So with many variables out there do not take advice willy nilly either, get the facts from the people who have shot it more than a couple hundred rounds and are use to the gun. I give my guns a good cleaning and proper lube after every time out and no problems except maybe the clip feed rails needing adjusted. The Sig P250 is a wise choice on a budget or not especially a 45 Full at $350
Originally Posted by Texag
August 22nd, 2011 03:00 AM
I have a P250, and loved it. It has replaced my Glock 19 as my EDC, and my Glock is pretty much used for IDPA purposes now. People who speak against it, probably never shot one. The only bad thing I can kind of agree with, because it is subjective, is the trigger pull. It took some to get used to, but when you get it down, it is accurate as hell. Not to mention the trigger pull is pretty much like a revolver, such as my 442. If you haven't got it already, and want it, go for it.
Gun Review: SIG SAUER P250 9mm | The Truth About Guns
» Sig Sauer P250 – 5,000 rounds later Gun Nuts Media
November 23rd, 2012 05:37 PM
I have the p250 sub-compact in 40 cal. and even though the grip is short. It shoots extremly well. I have no problem keeping all shots in an 8 inch target at 10 and 15 yards. when I purchased it, the dealer showed me that the full size mags fit. this helped me. Madpapa
November 23rd, 2012 05:52 PM
GODs Country in Albermarle, NC has them for 449.00 and another model I can't remember for 389.00? The triggers don't feel as good as a SW sigma VE40 I have. It feels like its climbing up in weight pull then let's off a bit before the hammer drops.
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