The Keltec P3AT and Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 Grain JHP... why I don't pocket carry much

The Keltec P3AT and Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 Grain JHP... why I don't pocket carry much

This is a discussion on The Keltec P3AT and Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 Grain JHP... why I don't pocket carry much within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I shared the recoil and accuracy of the Ruger LCR, now I want to address the Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 grain JHP ( I put ...

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Thread: The Keltec P3AT and Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 Grain JHP... why I don't pocket carry much

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    The Keltec P3AT and Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 Grain JHP... why I don't pocket carry much

    I shared the recoil and accuracy of the Ruger LCR, now I want to address the Buffalo Bore "+p" 90 grain JHP ( I put it in "" because there is no SAAMI spec for 380)

    This is one of my earlier videos dispelling the myth of recoil of the Buffalo bore "+P" in the p3at. The entire session was done with buffalo bore ammo. I haad out about 400 trouble free rounds through it before I was satisfied and the weapon held up great even though keltec says not to shoot it regularly. I did NO fluff and buff on this weapon outside of polishing the feed ramp which I do on all my weapons with some rubbing compound and a cotton ball. it is out of the box factory.

    I was using a desantis nemesis pocket holster and I discovered two things:

    1. occasionally the holster will come out with the weapon when moving under duress ( as I was just training it wasn't even stressful even though my adrenaline was up)... I went to a desantis because I had a leather pocket holster with a nice fancy catch thing for the pocket but that came out a LOT due to the leather being smooth so I went to the nemesis for more "traction.

    2. When pocket carrying you can do one of two things, move or draw not both. Once you start moving the compression in the pocket area makes it VERY difficult if not impossible to reach in there and get a clean draw. So you have to expose yourself for a second with a hesitation and draw before move. This was an earlier video so I thought it was a bad habit and did not realize this until I did a few more sessions to understand why and how things work with pocket carry. Now I rarely pocket carry due to this hesitation issue which I personally feel makes me vulnerable if attacked. I feel much more comfortable beginning my movement then beginning the draw stroke rather than having that hesitation.

    FYI I video most of my point shooting training so I can look it over afterwards and critique myself, see what i was doing wrong, and improve on that.

    I also want to give props where props are due. The book Bullseyes Dont Shoot Back by Colonel Rex Applegate and Mike Janich was the eye opener for me when I first read it back in 2001 or so and I have not punched paper at a range standing still since then. Also, I have not taken any of Roger Phillips classes but his book and DVD Point shooting progressions was instrumental in making my training regime better and improving on it, one day I would like to train under him, but I cannot say enough about his techniques as spelled out in the book and DVD that assisted me in becoming a better shooter. I am not perfect and I can critique these videos all day long, but I train once a week now for at least 50 rounds and I am becoming more naturally accurate and more fluid in my movements and I can tell you these books/DVD's helpoed me immensely.



  2. #2
    VIP Member Array Hiram25's Avatar
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    Good post, thanks!
    Hiram25
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  3. #3
    los
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    Another outstanding video...! THANKS for posting.

    BTW, for demonstrative purposes, I would recommend that you place inflated medium sized balloons on the target. One in the head and two next to each other in the chest area. This method will and should enhance accuracy with practice while at the same time display instant target neutralization.

    Balloons are inexpensive and can be quickly secured on the target with common tape.

    Just a thought..
    What we've got here is failure to communicate.

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    Member Array chivvalry's Avatar
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    Nice vid. I don't pocket carry my P3AT unless absolutely necessary and it almost never is... I've had the holster come out with the gun too many times in drills (even with a remora). I have it in a big old (comparatively speaking) crossbreed minituck and the draw has always been smooth and easy even while moving.
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  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    No criticism here. You are getting off the X and making hits. I've accepted that having to clear a pocket holster is going to happen occasionally. I have found though that from drawing from the pocket that if I can push back slightly on my upper thigh with the gun as I draw the holster will stay put.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by los View Post
    Another outstanding video...! THANKS for posting.

    BTW, for demonstrative purposes, I would recommend that you place inflated medium sized balloons on the target. One in the head and two next to each other in the chest area. This method will and should enhance accuracy with practice while at the same time display instant target neutralization.

    Balloons are inexpensive and can be quickly secured on the target with common tape.

    Just a thought..

    Thats a good idea but two ballons in the chest area made me giggle beavis style

    I was taping clay pigeons to the targets. I really need to get more realistic targets.

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I forgot to add a vid I made a while ago to demonstrate the weapon recoiling with the Buffalo Bore so you can actually see how much muzzle flip there is and what follow up shots look like.


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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Get yourself a pocket holster from Jim at www.Hiddenholsters.net

    I use his #6, and asked him to add a thumb push-off to specifically address the issue of the holster coming out of the pocket. I also had him make the holster "rough side out" so it grabs the inside of the pocket better. Problem solved.
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  9. #9
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    if I were to continue pocket carrying I would, but I have since purchased an AIWB holster for it and it conceals well. I only pocket carry on the rare occasion I have to wear a shirt and tie or tucked in shirt otherwise it is shirts out bum dress and aiwb for me, I rarely carry it anymore either.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Get yourself a pocket holster from Jim at www.Hiddenholsters.net

    I use his #6, and asked him to add a thumb push-off to specifically address the issue of the holster coming out of the pocket. I also had him make the holster "rough side out" so it grabs the inside of the pocket better. Problem solved.
    Can you post a pic of the holster so I can see the thumb push?
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I ran a DM Bullard before the desantis. It was a beautifully made holster but same issues, after training like this with teh weapon as i have multiplke times over the past few years I dont think a thumb push off would make a difference as it is too fine a motor skill during a high stress moving draw. just my .02

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    My range doesn't allow even rapid fire, much less "shoot and scoot." I yearn for the old days when I lived in WA and could go out into the badlands between Moses Lake and Spokane and shoot at my disgression.
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    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    I really do wish I lived somewhere that I could train like you do. But like OldVet, My range doesn't allow rapid fire so I am pretty sure movement is out of the question as well.
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  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Look for an IDPA group and join. You can shoot and scoot there. Definately not tactical training but it is still better than standing stagnant launching mindless rounds down range.
    Why Ike, whatever do you mean? Maybe poker's just not your game Ike. I know! Let's have a spelling contest!

  15. #15
    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    I did IDPA and PP, it is nothing like point shooting training IMHO

    Your best bet is to find a rural area you can go setup in with a good backstop or befriend someone with a lot of property in the country whose property you can use for this. I dont do ranges, only when I am there to sight in a hunting rifle.....

    That being said, if you cannot do this, go join a Force on force class with airsoft. Or buy airsoft replicas and start your own force on force point shooting club. I have one of those as well, no videos though because I dont have permission from the other participants. An excellent resource we used to structure this training was the book: Force-On-Force Gunfight Training Book by gabe Suarez. Totally worth it. i have a group of 10 people and we do this once or twice a month. All you need is : airsoft replica, goggles or face guard, knee and elbow pads, and a desire to learn.

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