About Mass Produced Guns

This is a discussion on About Mass Produced Guns within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by martino Ok Glock 19 or XDM what are the pluses and minuses? I think between the Glock and the XD it comes ...

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Thread: About Mass Produced Guns

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by martino View Post
    Ok Glock 19 or XDM what are the pluses and minuses?
    I think between the Glock and the XD it comes down to feel and PERSONAL preference. I think that the Glock is the way to go but YOU might not like the feel or the trigger.

    If you are looking at polymer guns I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't mention the M&P line of pistols. Glock, XD and M&P pistols are all similar (the latter were directly marketed to compete with Glock) and are all birds of a feather. Between the three of these fine choices only you can pick what you like best. In the end it will come down to the little differences in how they look, feel and function.
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  3. #47
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    Yes SIXTO....If we were talking about bicycle seats then the car analogy applies:

    automobiles = bicycle seats
    firearms = blue jeans

    ...it's the Ricardian Theory of Comparative Advantage.
    Last edited by Sonic82; February 17th, 2011 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic82 View Post
    Yes SIXTO....If we were talking about bicycle seats then the car analogy applies:

    automobiles = bicycle seats
    firearms = blue jeans

    ...it's the Ricardian Theory of Comparative Advantage.
    Really? Since some guns are made out of all machined metal, and some are made out of injected metal parts or cast parts, some are made out of injection molded plastic, while others are made out of machined aluminium. Seems cars have similar manufacturing techniques across thier manufacturing lines as well.

    Different manufacturing processes, and materials are used in both making guns and cars. Both are pieces of machinery with moving parts.

    Bicycle seats and blue jeans aren't mechanical and would be the closer analogy to each other. If one had experience in disassembling/assembling or repairing either guns or cars they might better understand.

    I would love to see a stack of 501's go through a CNC machine. Well not really, might be a pretty expensive thing to do for just kicks.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  5. #49
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    Well, I'll go back and add one of these as to help to understand my last post better.

  6. #50
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    No worries Sonic, I got the sarcasm.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Quote Originally Posted by martino View Post
    Curious, i was a sporting goods store salesman an older guy, former cop, marines etc, tells me that glock, SA XDM, are all mass produced generic guns and nothing special. XDM he says has "too much inside that can wear down." he says Sig, H&K, Kimber etc all much better choices for the up cost. I'm still on the learning curve here, was this guy full of it or bluntly truthful?
    Well it certainly has nothing to do with Sigs, HKs and Kimbers being a lot more expensive - I mean no gun salesman would be thinking about THAT.

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    ...and I add (at a certain risk), I would never put a Kimber in any high reliability category, but that's just me.

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    Reliability does correlate with price up to a point. That point has been moving further and further backwards due to the wonders of the free market and mass manufacturing. Even new Hi Points these days are reliable.

    It goes for a lot of other areas, too. You can get a $17k Hyundai and it's rock-solid reliable. Get a $170,000 Bentley, though, and reliability is not so guaranteed anymore. You are paying for the name, sure, but you're also paying for quality. Unlike the old days as well, quality and reliability don't always refer to the same thing. A lot of times, these high-end, super expensive guns are unreliable because of a few reasons, but the one I am familiar with is that they're made with such close, precise tolerances, that things are too "tight" - and it doesn't take much to jam it up. You get more accuracy in this case, but at the expense of reliability.

    Take the AK, for example. Well known for reliability, but also relatively loose tolerances. That's why it can be buried in the desert, dusted off, then shot again. But there's a point of diminishing returns. Make it too loose and it's useless for accuracy, and it won't even function properly.

  10. #54
    Member Array Sonic82's Avatar
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    Close tolerances are one thing, precision fit is quite another and that's where many fail.

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    Back to the original post it sounded like an uneducated gun salesman that just wanted a sale the made him the most money. Mass produced guns obviously do well as we have lived in this environment now for years. Technology has improved and the performance of these guns is quite good. For the average person this type of manufacturing produces a gun that will last them a lifetime and they will be happy. Then there are those people who like craftsmanship and pursue that in the more hand made/fitted processes like STI, Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and others use in the production of their products. Then there are those who have done a great job in marketing and have created the illusion that they are better than they really are (inside and back cover of most magazines). The bottom line is that there is a place for all of them. I have Taurus, FN, Smith and Wesson, CZ, Springfield, etc. and enjoy each of them for what they are. I have others that some day I would like to have, but am perfectly happy with the mass produced products that I have today. Having said that, I do enjoy the older guns that were more hand made simply because it is becoming a lost art like so much of our great history.

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    "Precision Fit" is how he described it. Sonic82 I see you are in MN are you the salesman??? (stranger things happen) so that was my question. What are these precision fit gun brands? and does it really matter or is that hype?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic82 View Post
    Close tolerances are one thing, precision fit is quite another and that's where many fail.
    Yes, thank you. I am no machinist or mechanical engineer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martino View Post
    "Precision Fit" is how he described it. Sonic82 I see you are in MN are you the salesman??? (stranger things happen) so that was my question. What are these precision fit gun brands? and does it really matter or is that hype?
    Hmm...nope, no salesman here. Why would you ask that? I bought an XDm because it has a reputation of reliability. I own a Beretta and a SIG for the very same reasons. I had a CZ for the that reason also. I would not hesitate to own several other brands as well. I consider these all reliable and precision fit...because they run. I don't defend guns that don't run because they are supposedly close tolerance or precision fit..I find it contradictory

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    just curious Sonic no big deal. Well here's the thing, here is my mistake. I walked out of there on his recommendation with a Sig P250. Stupid of me to do but i'm new at all this. I later find out that I bought the longest DA Semi auto known with a history of reliability issues and the modular idea of switching calibers just doesn't sound practical anymore. PO'd at myself for spending so recklessly. I haven't shot it yet, should I try it or dump it on a trade and take my loss?

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    Quote Originally Posted by martino View Post
    just curious Sonic no big deal. Well here's the thing, here is my mistake. I walked out of there on his recommendation with a Sig P250. Stupid of me to do but i'm new at all this. I later find out that I bought the longest DA Semi auto known with a history of reliability issues and the modular idea of switching calibers just doesn't sound practical anymore. PO'd at myself for spending so recklessly. I haven't shot it yet, should I try it or dump it on a trade and take my loss?
    That's unfortunate. SIG may have jumped the gun(so to speak) on that one. I don't defend SIG for it, but they do have a history of getting it right. Have you tried to take it back with the idea that you would buy another pistol from them? I did the very same thing once and the dealer happily took it back as long as I'd purchase something else from them. You're doing the right thing by not firing it until it's sorted out.

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