Here's a question...

[JPCleary]

What are examples of a DAO auto loading pistol with no decocker or external safety?

I was asked this question earlier, and couldn't come up with an example off the top of my head.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[azchevy]

GLOCK

[JPCleary]

GLOCK

That's the first thing that popped into my head...but I remembered there being some controversy surrounding the Glock trigger and if it really is DAO. As a quick example I've found, see this article...

http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm

[gasmitty]

Among the "traditional" guns with hammers and firing pins (i.e., not Glocks, Kahrs and the like), any SIG with the DAK trigger system fits your description.

[azchevy]

That's the first thing that popped into my head...but I remembered there being some controversy surrounding the Glock trigger and if it really is DAO. As a quick example I've found, see this article...

http://members.cox.net/guntraining/glocks.htm

semantics

[JPCleary]

semantics

You think? ...seems to be a pretty important distinction.

A double action only trigger is one that you can take a decocked pistol, pull the trigger, have it cock the pistol and fire it...no?

If I take a Glock that is hammer down...i.e. you can remove the slide from the frame...and insert a magazine and pull the trigger, will it fire?

If the answer is no, doesn't that mean that it is not a DAO pistol?

[azchevy]

Ok you got me have fun with your semantics :)

[JPCleary]

Ok you got me have fun with your semantics :)

Ok...AZ gave up.

So can anyone else explain to me what constitutes a DAO trigger, and why a Glock is DAO?

And of course the original question of what are examples of a DAO auto loading pistol with no decocker or external safety?

[gasmitty]

Break it down a little.

A "single action" trigger is a trigger which has but one function - dropping the hammer.

A "double action" trigger is one which serves to first cock the hammer, then second, to drop it.

In the case of the Glock and similar guns, the striker is partially 'cocked' by the action of cycling the slide, and the trigger serves to finish compressing the striker spring and then releasing it.
However, this distinction is lost on a lot of people because the Glock 'works' just like a DA revolver - pull the trigger, the gun fires.

[msgt/ret]

Kahr

[10thmtn]

The Glock trigger is sort of unique, in that the trigger pull completes the cocking of the striker, which is 63% pre-cocked by the slide movement. It then releases the striker, firing the pistol.

A "true" DAO would be like a Sig P250. Each trigger pull completely cocks and releases the hammer.

The Taurus 709 is a SA, but if the bullet fails to ignite, reverts to DAO for a "second strike" capability.

The XD "feels" like a DAO, but is really a SA, since the striker is 100% pre-cocked by the slide movement, and the trigger just releases it.

So...it can get confusing.

[RKirk]

Here is m feeble attempt at to define double action. With a revolver each trigger pull cocks the hammer, rotates the cylinder, and releases the hammer. If the gun does not fire, pull the trigger and try again. With semi auto pistols like Glock, XD, Kahr and similar pistols, with a loaded chamber the trigger pull is completing the cocking and releasing the hammer or striker. If the gun does not fire pulling the trigger will not cock the pistol for another try. You must pull the slide to eject the chambered round, load another and pull the trigger. There are some exceptions in semi autos that give you a second strike, but do you really want to waste time making another hit on a misfired cartridge? I am sure I missed something important with my explanation, that is the gist of my understanding. I like my Kahr, which I think of as a semi auto revolver, a great pistol, with no extra levers or switches.

Shoot safe,

-- Richard

[hogdaddy]

LCP,P3AT,Sigma A Few more I'm sure ; )
H/D

[southchatham]

Seecamp

[Randy W]

What about the Walther P99 DAO.?