The Importance Of Having A Revolver

This is a discussion on The Importance Of Having A Revolver within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Eagleks What are you doing .. ?? Not cleaning them and beating them with a hammer ? ? (Just kidding you) ... ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    What are you doing .. ?? Not cleaning them and beating them with a hammer ? ? (Just kidding you) ... but seriously, what was the failures ?

    Ok, all cards on table, all problems with handguns
    Revolvers:
    Ruger SP101: Cleaned according to owner's manual, but eventually the cylinder/crane assembly gummed up and pulling the trigger was next to impossible. Manual says no further dis-assembly rqrd, but that's bs. I took it apart and cleaned out the accumulated gunk. One shouldn't have to send a firearm to the manufacturer to get it cleaned.

    S&W 29: I've never flipped the cylinder closed, but the timing got out of whack and started spitting bullet fragments in my face - good thing I always wear safety glasses. Cost me $80 to get fixed and was told it would continue to happen with a 44 Mag.

    Llama Comanche .357: Fail to fire. Been a long time, but I believe the trigger wouldn't advance the cylinder. Don't remember what part it was, but a strip of metal repeatedly bent under stress of firing - I had to bend it back to get the gun to fire every X rounds. No hammer needed.

    Pistols:
    Kel-tec P11: broken ejector. Went to eject chambered round and saw round "floating" in front of breechface. Had to pry it out. Guess what I've never carried again.

    Glock 23: No problems in 20 years with the same gun. Seriously, not a one.

    While I admit this is a limited selection, I think that only reinforces the fact that revolvers can and do fail - I had failures in such a small sample size.

    I've also seen revolvers (and pump shotguns and lever guns) go down at the range. Pumps and levers get locked up to the point of needing tools to get them running again due to short stroking. Have I left out any sacred cows? While the P11 was a catastrophic failure, so was the Llama and admittedly they can't be considered high end guns. The Smith - gun would still run, but w/o glasses I could've sustained serious eye injury. The Ruger situation is just unacceptable and the gun did get to the point where it was damn near impossible to fire. I've seen a Judge go down b/c 3" shells were fired in a 2 3/4" chamber, yeah that was the shooter's fault, but the gun was locked up. I've seen a squib lock up a revolver as well as bullet jump doing the same.

    I've never claimed that pistols are fail proof, and I doubt anyone else would either; but repeatedly hear that claim made by revolver fans and the, let's say, "inexperienced". It's become a serious pet peeve of mine in that it leads new shooters to believe something that isn't true. The never fail attitude can also lead one to neglect maintenance which is never good. Leading newbies down a false path is just infuriating to me.

    On related note: On a regular basis I see new older shooters, new young shooters, and new female shooters show up with revolvers or with someone steering them towards revolvers (worse yet, airweights) and when push comes to shove they 1)can't pull a dbl action trigger, 2)can't thumb back a hammer, and/or 3)can't handle the recoil of an airweight. I've taught a lot of new shooters and have seen some who couldn't operate a pistol or just prefer revolvers, but I've seen just as many who couldn't physically operate a wheelgun that could run a pistol just fine. Don't forget, strength problems with pistols can be overcome with certain techniques; strength problems with a revolver are much harder or impossible to overcome.

    380ACP: You're missing a couple of steps in the revolver section: either
    1) loading individual rounds into individual chambers
    2) aligning rounds stored in speedloader with chambers, steps to release rounds into chambers (whatever those are) or
    3) steps needed to transfer rounds in speedstrip to chambers, rotating cylinder, repeat as necessary.
    You are also ignoring more advanced loading/unloading situations like one handed or weak hand reloads and that you have 5 or 6 six additional chambers to clean which takes more time than scrubbing/spraying out a pistol frame. How is an individual's accuracy when trying to pull a dbl action trigger weak hand only vs pulling a pistol (non DAO) trigger weak hand only?
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  3. #62
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    "Cleaned according to owner's manual, but eventually the cylinder/crane assembly gummed up and pulling the trigger was next to impossible."


    Perhaps it was cleaned according to the owner's manual but it wasn't cleaned properly or it wouldn't have gummed up. Initiative would get the revolver user past this problem.


    "...was told it would continue to happen with a 44 Mag."


    Just because someone claimed it would continue to happen doesn't mean it is so. My now older Model 29-2 has seen much use in silhouette competition with heavy handloads along with 30+ years of hunting and range use and is still fine mechanically. It has never given a problem and is too well-mannered to "spit."


    "...strip of metal repeatedly bent under stress of firing."


    Just guessing that this was the hand. My admittedly limited experience with LLama products, both revolvers and automatics, indicated soft steel at every turn. This defunct manufacturer is not a sterling example of the gunmaker's art. LLama automatic pistols are also known to have steel with inferior heat treat processes. I once repaired a Llama .380 for a friend that had a bent slide stop. The steel was dead soft.


    "I've seen a Judge go down b/c 3" shells were fired in a 2 3/4" chamber, yeah that was the shooter's fault, but the gun was locked up. I've seen a squib lock up a revolver as well as bullet jump doing the same."


    Inappropriate ammunition and low-powered or squib loads are certainly equally capable of shutting down an automatic in a most effective manner.


    "I've never claimed that pistols are fail proof, and I doubt anyone else would either; but repeatedly hear that claim made by revolver fans and the, let's say, "inexperienced". It's become a serious pet peeve of mine in that it leads new shooters to believe something that isn't true. The never fail attitude can also lead one to neglect maintenance which is never good. Leading newbies down a false path is just infuriating to me."


    No revolver fan in this thread claims they are fail-proof. They do say that they haven't experienced failures related to the mechanical design of the revolver.

    I'm not "inexperienced" and neither are a number of other revolver aficionados here on the Forum. We're not leading anybody astray to relate our personal experiences with our revolvers.

    Anyone who neglects handgun maintenance has no one to blame but himself when his handgun chokes and pukes and revolver fans aren't to blame for his troubles. If you find yourself peeved and infuriated you might consider redirecting your vexation toward the many automatic pistol fans who brag about shooting their guns over long periods with excruciatingly high round counts without cleaning or maintenance. Such threads with provided links have appeared both here on the Forum and elsewhere with some frequency over the years. It is these types of marathon auto-pistol shooting testimonials that lead newbies down false paths. Revolver shooters have never once subscribed to such foolishness. We love our revolvers and know how to use them and how take proper care of them.


    "On a regular basis I see new older shooters, new young shooters, and new female shooters show up with revolvers or with someone steering them towards revolvers (worse yet, airweights) and when push comes to shove they 1)can't pull a dbl action trigger, 2)can't thumb back a hammer, and/or 3)can't handle the recoil of an airweight."


    You do get points for the assertion that the airweight revolvers are a poor choice for the inexpert shooter. Airweights are way oversold.


    "Don't forget, strength problems with pistols can be overcome with certain techniques; strength problems with a revolver are much harder or impossible to overcome."


    Though my wife is adept with both revolvers and automatics, the women I've introduced to handgunning all gravitated to the revolver as being the easier to effectively master. Revolvers are easier for those with strength issues to manage than an automatic that is large enough to be manageable and is chambered for an effective cartridge. Runt .380s need not apply as they are particularly unpleasant to shoot for the same reasons as the the Airweight revolvers.

    The revolver certainly isn't for everyone but the automatic isn't the universal solution to handgunning needs either.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post

    Ok, all cards on table, all problems with handguns
    Revolvers:
    Ruger SP101: Cleaned according to owner's manual, but eventually the cylinder/crane assembly gummed up and pulling the trigger was next to impossible. Manual says no further dis-assembly rqrd, but that's bs. I took it apart and cleaned out the accumulated gunk. One shouldn't have to send a firearm to the manufacturer to get it cleaned.

    S&W 29: I've never flipped the cylinder closed, but the timing got out of whack and started spitting bullet fragments in my face - good thing I always wear safety glasses. Cost me $80 to get fixed and was told it would continue to happen with a 44 Mag.

    Llama Comanche .357: Fail to fire. Been a long time, but I believe the trigger wouldn't advance the cylinder. Don't remember what part it was, but a strip of metal repeatedly bent under stress of firing - I had to bend it back to get the gun to fire every X rounds. No hammer needed.

    Pistols:
    Kel-tec P11: broken ejector. Went to eject chambered round and saw round "floating" in front of breechface. Had to pry it out. Guess what I've never carried again.

    Glock 23: No problems in 20 years with the same gun. Seriously, not a one.

    While I admit this is a limited selection, I think that only reinforces the fact that revolvers can and do fail - I had failures in such a small sample size.

    I've also seen revolvers (and pump shotguns and lever guns) go down at the range. Pumps and levers get locked up to the point of needing tools to get them running again due to short stroking. Have I left out any sacred cows? While the P11 was a catastrophic failure, so was the Llama and admittedly they can't be considered high end guns. The Smith - gun would still run, but w/o glasses I could've sustained serious eye injury. The Ruger situation is just unacceptable and the gun did get to the point where it was damn near impossible to fire. I've seen a Judge go down b/c 3" shells were fired in a 2 3/4" chamber, yeah that was the shooter's fault, but the gun was locked up. I've seen a squib lock up a revolver as well as bullet jump doing the same.

    I've never claimed that pistols are fail proof, and I doubt anyone else would either; but repeatedly hear that claim made by revolver fans and the, let's say, "inexperienced". It's become a serious pet peeve of mine in that it leads new shooters to believe something that isn't true. The never fail attitude can also lead one to neglect maintenance which is never good. Leading newbies down a false path is just infuriating to me.

    On related note: On a regular basis I see new older shooters, new young shooters, and new female shooters show up with revolvers or with someone steering them towards revolvers (worse yet, airweights) and when push comes to shove they 1)can't pull a dbl action trigger, 2)can't thumb back a hammer, and/or 3)can't handle the recoil of an airweight. I've taught a lot of new shooters and have seen some who couldn't operate a pistol or just prefer revolvers, but I've seen just as many who couldn't physically operate a wheelgun that could run a pistol just fine. Don't forget, strength problems with pistols can be overcome with certain techniques; strength problems with a revolver are much harder or impossible to overcome.

    380ACP: You're missing a couple of steps in the revolver section: either
    1) loading individual rounds into individual chambers
    2) aligning rounds stored in speedloader with chambers, steps to release rounds into chambers (whatever those are) or
    3) steps needed to transfer rounds in speedstrip to chambers, rotating cylinder, repeat as necessary.
    You are also ignoring more advanced loading/unloading situations like one handed or weak hand reloads and that you have 5 or 6 six additional chambers to clean which takes more time than scrubbing/spraying out a pistol frame. How is an individual's accuracy when trying to pull a dbl action trigger weak hand only vs pulling a pistol (non DAO) trigger weak hand only?
    Since we are throwing out our 2 cents, I will say that I have seen auto's fail about 100 to 1 over revolvers over my shooting years. I really wish I had the actual stats, it may even be higher. By the way, I have both dogs in the fight, but I have to keep it honest. All mechanical devices can fail, but revolvers tend to be pretty darn reliable.
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  5. #64
    Senior Member Array 380ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    380ACP: You're missing a couple of steps in the revolver section: either
    1) loading individual rounds into individual chambers
    2) aligning rounds stored in speedloader with chambers, steps to release rounds into chambers (whatever those are) or
    3) steps needed to transfer rounds in speedstrip to chambers, rotating cylinder, repeat as necessary.
    You are also ignoring more advanced loading/unloading situations like one handed or weak hand reloads and that you have 5 or 6 six additional chambers to clean which takes more time than scrubbing/spraying out a pistol frame. How is an individual's accuracy when trying to pull a dbl action trigger weak hand only vs pulling a pistol (non DAO) trigger weak hand only?
    Not really, I don't think...

    1. You have to load individual rounds in a magazine too.
    2&3. I guess you've got me there, but I'm just talking about straight loading an empty gun/magazine. Same goes for the following comments. By the time someone starts worrying about speed loaders and one handed/weak reloads/firing they've moved beyond straight simplicity and the scope of this discussion. For a beginner, a revolver is incredibly easy to understand, load, and shoot...and it involves fewer steps than an auto.

    As per the additional chambers to clean, there's also the added benefit of cutting out the disassembly/reassembly steps of a semiauto for cleaning. Just pop out the cylinder and go at it for a revolver.

    For a beginner there's nothing simpler.
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  6. #65
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Revolvers are just flat out awesome for CC. I now have four snubs and way to many autos. I'm carrying my LCR and my S&W 637 from here on out and I'll let my bulky, heavy, high cap, high maintenance, finicky eater, big dollar autos stay home and do nothing until something convinces me that five well placed .38+p rounds wont stop some punk/thug, or I need to carry something else because we're going to war inside our own boarders.
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  7. #66
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Especially in the case of a newbie, a firearm cleaned according to manufacturer instructions is not neglected. Whether the issue with the 29 happens again is irrelevant, bottom line is that it happened. "The revolver certainly isn't for everyone but the automatic isn't the universal solution to handgunning needs either. " - Agreed.

    I'm not trying to slam revolvers, just want to point out the downfalls and complexity issues in actual use that no one else seems to ever mention. As to no one saying they don't jam, well, from this thread: "but the revolver goes bang every time where a auto can jam," and "And in the dark, under pressure, a revolver is comforting in that you pull the trigger, it goes bang. Dead simple."

    380ACP: Taking a myopic view of the use of a revolver doesn't negate my points about revolver usage. Having a limited number of rounds only increases the probability of having to reload and use those speedloaders/speedstrips. "Just popping out the cylinder" etc. for cleaning is what lead to me having problems with the SP101.

    GTBK: what about when there are 2 or 3 or 4 thugs???

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array 380ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    380ACP: Taking a myopic view of the use of a revolver doesn't negate my points about revolver usage. Having a limited number of rounds only increases the probability of having to reload and use those speedloaders/speedstrips. "Just popping out the cylinder" etc. for cleaning is what lead to me having problems with the SP101.
    I'm just saying, give a total newbie (someone who has never touched a gun in their life) a revolver and a semi auto and I bet they'll figure out the revolver first. They're just so dang simple.

    Everyone has their own experiences. My grandad's Colt Air Force service revolver never saw more than the pop out the cylinder treatment for close to 70 years and it still fires. I bet it's nasty inside, but it still works. For a while, that's all I did on my revolvers too. Never had any problems. Come to think of it, only one of them has ever seen more than the cylinder only treatment, and that was because I was installing new grips. All S&W wheel guns.
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    Senior Member Array 380ACP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    380ACP: Taking a myopic view of the use of a revolver doesn't negate my points about revolver usage. Having a limited number of rounds only increases the probability of having to reload and use those speedloaders/speedstrips. "Just popping out the cylinder" etc. for cleaning is what lead to me having problems with the SP101.
    I'm just saying, give a total newbie (someone who has never touched a gun in their life) a revolver and a semi auto and I bet they'll figure out the revolver first. They're just so dang simple.

    Everyone has their own experiences. My grandad's Colt Air Force service revolver never saw more than the pop out the cylinder treatment for close to 70 years and it still fires. I bet it's nasty inside, but it still works. For a while, that's all I did on my revolvers too. Never had any problems. Come to think of it, only one of them has ever seen more than the cylinder only treatment, and that was because I was installing new grips. All S&W wheel guns.
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    An intruder will be incapacitated by tear gas or oven spray, but if shot with a .357 Magnum will get angry and kill you.

  10. #69
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    When you start getting to 3 or more "thugs", your odds are in the crapper, no matter what you carry.
    "I do what I do." Cpl 'coach' Bowden, "Southern Comfort".

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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    GTBK: what about when there are 2 or 3 or 4 thugs???

    Note that I said I carry my LCR and my 637. Ten rounds ought to be sufficient in most any CC situation, or I'm in desperate need of practice. I understand your point, but I just think the reliability factor in a crisis is better with the revolver than the autoloader; to much opportunity for slide malfunction and other unforeseen situations IMO.YMMV

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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    GTBK: what about when there are 2 or 3 or 4 thugs???
    You're not going to outshoot 4 thugs with a semi-auto any more than you would with a revolver. They're not going to stand there and take turns getting shot. If they aren't armed with guns but still are a lethal threat (disparity of force, knives, bats, whatever), then I'd still be confident with my 5-shot .357 SP101 if use of lethal force was justified.


    NOTE: I typically carry my S&W 442 weak side in addition to WHATEVER else I'm carrying strong side...semi-auto or revolver. There's something very comforting to me in having that little revolver for secondary access no matter what else I am carrying.
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    "...what about when there are 2 or 3 or 4 thugs???"

    I certainly don't want to be accosted by several armed thugs but I can still positively influence such a situation with a revolver. Unless they get the first good hits in, thugs will not just be standing and shooting at me for they will have just acquired their own set of worries. If they hit me first and hit me well then it won't matter what sort of concealed carry choice I have made. If they don't get the first good hits in then a bad ol' time is guaranteed for all.
    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

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  14. #73
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    I don't care who you are, if you hear the crack of a .357mag you are going to be scrambling. I tend to look at it like a fist fight with punks and bullies, if you knock one straight in the kisser the others panic 70% of the time. Lets face it, most of them gang up because they are cowards.
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guantes View Post
    When you start getting to 3 or more "thugs", your odds are in the crapper, no matter what you carry.

    Most street punks are NOT going to stick around once the first round is fired. Punks look for the weak, they are not Marines, or SEALS, willing to get into a protracted fire fight to secure an objective.
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  16. #75
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    Ok, then. Looks like a new revolver for me. I've been saving up for a Kahr K9 but a Ruger LCR .357 is looking mighty good lately and I can have the LCR sooner rather than later.

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