Range Report -- CZ P01 9mm compact (ongoing) - Page 2

Range Report -- CZ P01 9mm compact (ongoing)

This is a discussion on Range Report -- CZ P01 9mm compact (ongoing) within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey ccw9mm, I'm new to CC, and the first auto gun I bought is a CZ-75 Compact 9mm. It is all steel and came with ...

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Thread: Range Report -- CZ P01 9mm compact (ongoing)

  1. #16
    Member Array crankinNM's Avatar
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    Hey ccw9mm,

    I'm new to CC, and the first auto gun I bought is a CZ-75 Compact 9mm. It is all steel and came with 2 14 round mags.

    The gun shoots great. Mine is a little heavier then yours but I think it is the same gun?

    Anyhows I enjoyed your reports.

    crankinNM


  2. #17
    Member Array everalm's Avatar
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    @CrankinNM

    Hi,
    Just to clarify, the CZ-75 you have is not the same pistol as the P-01.

    The P-01 was a full strip down, review, re-assess the basics, new pistol that CZ put together for, amongst other things, a NATO request for a standard and highly reliable, "just don't break" 9mm.

    New ergonomics, new frame structure, alloy not steel, accessory rail etc.

    They reviewed the ergonomics of the 75 and 85 ranges and when they came up with the new design, they beasted the poor thing like you would not believe........ A 1.5 mtr (4'9") drop, cocked and UNlocked 54 times, 3 mtr (9'8") drops at least 5 times the same (actually the lab, for a bit of a giggle decided to see just how many times they could do the drop test but got tired at 352 !!!!!!)

    I went for it's bigger brother in the end the SP-01, love at first sight/fire.......8-)
    As one of my old sergeants used to say. "WE do not play at spray and play.......Do we.... Sir....."

    Remember children, when we have removed the pin from Mr Grenade, Mr Grenade is no longer our friend......

  3. #18
    Member Array everalm's Avatar
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    @ccw9mm,

    Re your FTF's, the official testing averaged the Mean Rounds Before Failure (when cleaned and maintained) at 2142, so yours look pretty much on the money taking your factors into consideration.
    As one of my old sergeants used to say. "WE do not play at spray and play.......Do we.... Sir....."

    Remember children, when we have removed the pin from Mr Grenade, Mr Grenade is no longer our friend......

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Oooooh! The P-01 is back. Time for some shootin'.

    Of course, wouldn't you know that the Ayoob LFI course was last weekend. Arghhh. I pick it up tomorrow, fresh back from Matt Mink, who did a full reliablity/action job to smooth up everything as well as install Trijicon night sights. After that, I'll put on the new ebony grips from Sam @ Omega. Am still awaiting arrival of the new K&D Laredo OWB holster, which should come in the any day now.

    Over the weekend, hopefully, I'll get in several hundred rounds' worth, to eval the "new" P-01. Gee, it's almost like my birthday.

    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #20
    Member Array crankinNM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Oooooh! The P-01 is back. Time for some shootin'.

    I pick it up tomorrow, fresh back from Matt Mink, who did a full reliablity/action job to smooth up everything as well as install Trijicon night sights. Gee, it's almost like my birthday.

    I thought the P-01 came stock with trijicon night sights?

    Mine came sith some kind of light retaining paint. I'm guessing yours came with the same sights. My rear sight is fixed, some come with windage adjustment.

    Anyhows how do you like the new sights compared to the stock ones?

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankinNM View Post
    I thought the P-01 came stock with trijicon night sights?
    Not mine. The CZ web site and catalog describes the P-01 sights as being "fixed," and the web site offers the option of "night sights." Though, I've seen those: they are a fairly bad excuse for true night sights. Trijicons, Meprolights, XS ... those are night sights.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    RANGE REPORT #5 for the CZ P-01 9mm

    October 14, 2006 -- Fifth range session, after purchase. Lots of rounds, today.

    Reliability -- One jam (details below). 600 rounds fired. So, the total is up to 4 FTF in (1700 + 600) 2300 rounds = 0.174% failure rate = 99.83% reliability rate. Actually, this round had zero to do with the gun and everything to do with the damaged casing.

    • Goal Today -- With the gun just back from a full reliability/action tuning from Matt Mink, and fresh from the Ayoob's LFI-1 course (Judicious Use Of Lethal Force), it was time to jump back in the saddle with the P-01. Lots of rounds; focused on the Ayoob Stressfire elements (power stance, high hand, crush grip, front sight, smooth roll onto trigger). Goal was to assess the tuning of the gun via the methods recently learned at LFI-1.
    • Initial Cleaning -- Came back from the gunsmith fairly clean. Did a simple wipe-down, re-oiled the barrel lugs and hammer/sear area (Militec-1 oil), greased the rails (Militec), ran a bore snake through the barrel several times, finished with a bore snake lubed lightly with oil then wiped down the gun. Left the magazines alone, but a few need cleaning.
    • Shots -- 600 rounds today. Three magazines' worth were Federal Hydrashok (HST) Tactical JHP +P+, a few rounds of some old reloads that I had onhand (which promptly jammed), and the remainder were Remington/UMC FMJ standard-pressure range rounds. Total rounds: 1700 + 600 = 2300 total.
    • Usage -- All magazines were 1st shot DA, subsequent shots SA. About half were using standard modified Weaver, slow to medium speed. About half were using the Ayoob isosceles/crush method, varying the speed. Accuracy was about twice as good with the isosceles/crush method, with all flyers disappearing, as compared to my standard mod-Weaver. Nice to see that the LFI range sessions have taken hold.
    • Gunsmithing Services -- I requested the following:
      1. Breech face -- smooth and polish.
      2. Extractor -- polish and tune.
      3. Barrel -- smooth and polish the ramp and mouth lips.
      4. Internal friction surfaces -- smooth and polish any not yet smoothed by the initial 1700rd break-in I did prior to sending it to MM.
      5. Trigger tune -- set DA pull to 8# and SA pull to 4#.
      6. Rails -- smooth, lap, tighten as needed. Was not needed.
      7. Night Sights -- Install a new set of Trijicon tritium 3-dot sights.
      8. Highly recommended. Good work.
    • Trigger Action -- Smooth as glass. A bit heavier SA trigger pull, but smooth and wonderful. Sadly, I had gotten used to the ultra-light pull and now accuracy has suffered a tad, on the range. Ah well ... this is a carry piece.
    • Ejection -- Crisp, firm, and consistently ejecting casings at a 50* upward angle, a tad behind my hands about 6' from me. Perfect.
    • Cycling -- Very smooth. What little grittiness had existed before has disappeared. Feeding from the magazine, insertion into the bore, cycling of the slide on the rails, ejection ... all of it feels tighter and smoother. Wonderful. This is the way it should feel.
    • Grips by Sam @ Omega -- A new set of checkered Gabon ebony grips arrived a couple weeks before the P-01 got back from the gunsmith, so I spent some time working out the final oil residues. (Tacky, glue-like crud, more like.) After a half-dozen times handling the wood, the sticky feel went away. Just installed them last night onto the pistol. Very nice. The 18-lpi checkering bites into the hand quite a lot, which shows its purposeful nature when rapid-firing a string of hot loads. The hand stays put. Much better than the factory rubber grips, in this regard. Palm swell is about right. My hands are reasonably wide, so (unfortunately) the top section of the grips have a bit too much outward flare, which intrudes upon the thumbs to a small degree. No biggie, as the overall improvement is nice. Minor issue.
    • Aim -- From 7-10yds, overall aim has degraded a bit, what with the heavier trigger pull. I'm able to keep medium-speed strings of hot loads and range rounds to ~2.5" to 3" or so. That will improve as I reset my "internal" sights. A new set of Trijicon tritium 3-dot sights was also installed at the gunsmith. Green front, yellow rear. Nice, sharp sight picture. POA is a bit high/left of impact, reliably 2-hand / left-hand / right-hand. I can live with that, as soon I will have simply adjusted the inch or so. At 7yds, mid-speed Ayoob isosceles yielded a nicely punched-out 2" diameter hole in the paper target, after ~75 rounds, minus a couple of fliers. Whew! I thought I'd lost it.
    • Jams/failures -- One today, but that was explained and absolutely not the fault of the gun. Recently unloading all of my boxes from a move, I brought out a dozen older reload rounds. They were about 5yrs old and I should have discarded them long ago. On the first magazine of these, one of the casings had a severe gouge that stuck on the extractor as it attempted to feed into the bore. It was a bugger to get out, but those older reloads are now toast. Someone else can use them. Not I. Sadly, this counts as a jam and hits the reliably "rating" for this P-01.
    • Reliability -- One jam in 600 rounds fired, today. So, the total is up to 4 FTF in (1700 + 600) 2300 rounds, with three of them explained. That's a 0.174% failure rate = 99.83% reliability rate. Actually, given that this one jam, today, had zero to do with the gun and everything to do with the damaged casing, I'd almost be willing to fudge the numbers and count zero failures today ... but that would be cheating. It happened. I was there.
    • Cleaning at Range -- None. Like the li'l bunny, it just kept on tickin'.
    • Cleaning after the Range -- Full field strip and hosed it out with CLP Break Free. Let the barrel sit for 15mins, to break up the worst of the fouling. Let the frame and slide sit for 10mins, as it "drained" the excess CLP. Wiped down everything, removing all fouling and old lube from all surfaces, the hammer/sear/springs area, and the internal lever-arm area at the top of the magazine feeding zone. Cleaned the lips and followers of all 9 magazines. Applied one drop of Militec oil to the hammer/sear and worked it in. One drop of oil to the lever-arms on either side of the magazine feeding zone. Applied a small amount of oil to a bore snake and ran it through the barrel three times, to lightly coat the bore. A dab of grease on all wear areas, the frame rails, the barrel lugs and outer surfaces. A lightly wetted cloth (oil) was used to wipe down the feed lips and followers of all magazines. A bit of dribble down the trigger, and a little out from underneath the decocker. Wiped off excess every few minutes for 30mins, until it stopped. A bit much, this time.

    Time for a massage and a bath. Yeah, baby! Bring on the hot water. Nothing like a good "lube" after a long session. Gee, I must be gettin' old.

    Enjoy.

    - Michael
    Last edited by Bumper; August 5th, 2007 at 09:22 PM. Reason: attack of the pedantic grammarian (me) ...
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  8. #23
    Assistant Administrator
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    Wow - kudos man.

    THAT is what I call a report
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  9. #24
    Member Array whitestone's Avatar
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    Outstanding! I learn a little more about my own carry pistol every time I read these terrific reports.

  10. #25
    Member Array CraigJS's Avatar
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    Why would you feed damaged rounds and expect to have the gun function properly? That could happen to ANY pistol using damaged ammo. Would you carry a pistol with those damaged rounds, I know I wouldn't.
    Be safe.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigJS View Post
    Why would you feed damaged rounds and expect to have the gun function properly?
    Huh??? Pick any bullet in a group of ten and tell me which one has a blemish on the casing. Quick, at a glance. Isn't going to happen. At a darker indoor range, it's not likely to be seen ... despite a fair gouge in the lip of a case. Of course, cases are round, and the "other" side points away from the eyes, so: it's easy to miss something like this, short of running one's finger around the entire circumference of each lip on every bullet. This is a pistol, not a match rifle.

    Would you carry a pistol with those damaged rounds, I know I wouldn't.
    Of course not. You're implying it was purposeful. I don't carry reloads, and I don't purposefully attempt to force-feed known damaged ammunition. Mistaken, all the way around. Range report. Not a carry report.

    I'm lunatic careful when it comes to my firearms. I do everything for a purpose. Though, I did bring a box of older reloads, the specific goal was to flex the P-01's muscles, to see where its limits of tolerance for non-factory rounds lay. I found it. As it happened, one of those rounds had a good-sized nick in the case. That's only the third or fourth nick I'd seen in these reloaded bullets in ~30K rounds of firing them (on a prior pistol). Hundreds of boxes of them, with few issues. The point is: shti happens. It happened to me, during this session. It was immediately discarded, and the remainder of the case palmed off on someone else with less finicky concerns. Not purposeful. Not for carry. Not a problem.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  12. #27
    Member Array CraigJS's Avatar
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    Perhaps I read your post wrong but it sounded like you had put a round in with a "severe gouge that stuck on the extractor". Indicating that you knew it was a bad round. Reloaded or factory it doesn't matter to me at all. I wouldn't have loaded the round and then used it's not working correctly in the data base, but you do as you wish.. Range reliability directly relates to carry reliability. Again if I read it wrong sorry. If I read it correctly my first post stands.. Other than that I think you did a fine job.

    Be safe.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Ach. CraigJS, I just re-read what I had posted earlier. My apologies for the tactless and gruff reply. Didn't mean to come off so ... so, uh ... much like an a$$. Wasn't my intention, but boy! that sure sounds like it, eh? All I can claim is: genetic disorder.

    In the morning, all will be well, though. Just got a batch of ammo in, including: CorBon DPX, CorBon Pow'r Ball, DoubleTap 115/124/147gr +P's. Ain't nuthin' that can't be solved by a good day at the range.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #29
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    RANGE REPORT #6 for the CZ P-01 9mm

    October 21, 2006 -- Sixth range session, after purchase.

    Reliability -- Zero jams, across 486 rounds fired. Total rounds fired to-date is now up to 486 + 2300 = 2786. Four failures in 2786 rounds, for a 99.86% reliability rate.

    • Goal Today -- test three different flavors of DoubleTap 9mm JHP rounds: 115gr +P, 124gr +P and 147gr +P. As well, send another couple hundred rounds of Remington/UMC range rounds through the gun, to ensure last week's excellent performance (in reliability) wasn't just a fluke.
    • Initial Cleaning -- None, as the Militec oil/grease combo from last week was still fresh. A bit of oil was still weeping from some of the crevices, one week later. A quick strip showed the barrel to be lightly coated with Militec grease, the rails nicely lubed, and the action sufficiently moist with oil to suffer through a range session without any prep work.
    • Shots -- 486 rounds, mixed between DoubleTap high-pressure JHP rounds and Remington/UMC range rounds. A couple hundred of the DoubleTap JHP in 115gr, 124gr and 147gr were the highlight. Perfect, 100% function. Extremely hard-hitting. Lots of kick, which took an aggressive stance and solid "crush" grip to handle. Hugely different feel than the Remington/UMC FMJ 115gr range rounds, which were tame by comparison. The DT's fed smoothly, ejected strongly, and were highly accurate. With a few magazines' worth of practice, even quick follow-up shots and double-taps were reasonably easy to keep within the 9-ring at 10yds. Stressful, quick shots at 25yds were much less accurate, but still within the 7-8-9-10 rings of a "human" silhouette target. If another several hundred to through without trouble, I may well have a new "carry" ammunition. One batch of 6 CorBon Pow'r Ball 100gr +P rounds were fed, at the end of the session, but 100% of those jammed. I'm convinced it's due to the Pow'r Ball rounds being exceedingly short. They're off the list. I refuse to count these as failures against the P-01. It's simply not the bullet for this gun.
    • Trigger Action -- Smooth. The SA pull takes a bit more control to execute properly, ensuring that the trigger falls on the crease of the first knuckle and the finger smoothly draws directly rearward. Proper procedure, of course, but more important given that the weight of the trigger pull in SA mode is quite a bit heavier than it used to be, now at 4# even. Getting used to it.
    • Ejection -- Strong, solid ejections landing 6-7' from me within a 1' circle. Same, every time.
    • Cycling -- Very smooth, indeed. I love it. No grittiness. No hesitation. Everything's humming right along. Beautiful! Thank you, Matt Mink (gunsmith).
    • Aim -- Shot from 7-10yds, again, today. Basic accuracy in slow-fire drills was ~2" groupings, or so. Worse than I'm used to, but then I'm getting used to the gun's heavier triggering, since the action/trigger job. The sights are a little off, I think. POA is at center, but POI always ends up low and to the right by about 1.5" to 2" or so. Doesn't matter which hand I shoot with, either two-handed or single-handed. So, I'm pretty sure that it isn't me. I'll see what I can do to adjust the sights, at the next session. Zero fliers.
    • Jams/failures with DoubleTap ammo -- None, during the primary session to focus on eval of the new DoubleTap ammo. Great stuff, that.
    • Jams/failures with CorBon Pow'r Ball ammo -- On the other hand, for grins I tossed in a final magazine full of CorBon Pow'r Ball 100gr +P ball ammo. Jam-o-matic. Every single one of the six rounds jammed, with failure to be in battery. Now, the gun fully fed the round, and the slide fully went forward, but the round was not in battery, each and every time. Only one of the six rounds actually fired. Five of the six rounds jammed up the slide's action so that it took minutes to eject the round and continue. One more brand/model of ammunition stricken off the list. Too bad, since the one round that did fire felt good, smooth, and was very accurate. Refer to the attached JPEG photo showing what I think is the source of the problem, with these Pow'r Ball rounds: the fact that they're extremely short, by comparison to other ammo I'm using. The photo shows the CorBon Pow'r Ball, the Remington/UMC FMJ, and the Federal HydraShok Tactical (HST) JHP, left to right.
      Reliability -- 486 rounds fired, with zero jams. (Won't count the six CorBons. That has nothing to do with the gun. It's just not the ammo that'll work in this P-01.) That brings the total to (486 b+ 2300) = 2786 rounds, with 4 failures to-date, or 0.143% failure, or a 99.86% reliability rate.
    • Grips by Sam @ Omega -- The Gabon ebony grips are nice. With clean hands, they bite into the hand very nicely, allowing for some good control. Of course, my weak/support hand is a bit of a problem. Given how small the P-01 is, my weak hand doesn't know what to do with itself. There's precious little room for fingers underneath the trigger guard. I may need to fiddle around with some "skateboard tape" on the underside of the trigger guard, to help hold the weak hand in place. Hm ...
    • Cleaning at Range -- None. Energizer bunny, today.
    • Cleaning after the Range -- Not yet, as I'll likely be at the range for another brief session tomorrow.


    Well. This P-01 is ready for prime time. It's highly reliable. It's fairly accurate. The sights are a tad off, right now, but that's minor. It's easy to shoot, simple to manage follow-up shots and double-taps. Federal HydraShok Tactical +P+ ammo. 14+1 with two spare 14rd magazines. Easy to holster. At 28oz and reasonably compact, this one's a keeper. Onto the daily carry belt it goes. Yaaaaaay!

    Enjoy.

    Photo below: The photo shows the CorBon Pow'r Ball, the Remington/UMC FMJ, and the Federal HydraShok Tactical (HST) JHP, left to right. Notice how short the Pow'R Ball is, as compared to the other two. I'm convinced this is a major factor in explaining why the Pow'r Ball won't cycle properly in the P-01.
    Last edited by ccw9mm; October 22nd, 2006 at 02:27 AM.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #30
    Member Array CraigJS's Avatar
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    No problem here, if we were perfect we wouldn't be human. That CZ will serve you very well..
    Be safe.

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