A type "4"? malfunction with a Glock 19

A type "4"? malfunction with a Glock 19

This is a discussion on A type "4"? malfunction with a Glock 19 within the Defensive Carry Guns forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was letting a friend shoot my Glock 19 at the range this past Monday night. We were shooting Walmart Federal 115 grain target ammo. ...

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Thread: A type "4"? malfunction with a Glock 19

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    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    A type "4"? malfunction with a Glock 19

    I was letting a friend shoot my Glock 19 at the range this past Monday night.
    We were shooting Walmart Federal 115 grain target ammo.
    He was shooting and I was loading mags behind him.
    Things suddenly get quiet...the Glock was locked up.
    I went over to take a look assuming it would be one of the typical manfunctions.
    It wasn't.
    A loaded round was wedged 3/4 of the way into the chamber.
    I dropped the mag and did everything I could to try to free the round.
    No good. So I call the range master over, and he in turn brings in the store/range's gunsmith. He works on it a bit and finally frees the round.
    Apparently, the casing wasn't crimped tightly enough around the bullet, so when the round was loaded into the chamber part of the brass casing was peeled back and over...putting my Glock out of action.
    A couple of questions. Have any of you ever had this happen? If so, did you clear it as you would a squib?
    And do you think the action of a Glock makes it more prone to this sort of malfunction...or does 100% of the blame go to a bad round?
    (And so the lesson would be to simply buy better ammo and be more observant while loading mags.)
    Thanks in advance for your thoughts and comments.
    BTW, this was the first malfunction for the G19.
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  2. #2
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    100% of the blame goes to the ammo, which was certainly damaged before it was loaded. The recoil spring in a handgun does not have the energy to peel back a brass case like that.

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    "or does 100% of the blame go to a bad round?"

    I'd DITTO MattInFla as any semi-automatic would have suffered the same fate in the identical circumstance.

    DITTO to Matt again. The cartridge case brass had to have been peeled back during ammo manufacture and not as part of the cycling sequence of your handgun. It was a preexisting and already defective round that entered your barrel chamber.

    {And so the lesson would be to simply buy better ammo and be more observant while loading mags.)

    That would be the answer but, ammo quality is typically so consistent in the U.S. that we usually just assume that factory ammo cartridges will not be physically defective.
    I always carefully check-out/inspect my carry ammo and so should we all.
    I am honestly/truthfully much more "lax" with my "shoot it up" non-critical stuff and normally do not inspect individual cartridges for defects or uniformity other than just (naturally) looking at what I am doing while filling magazines.

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    Agreed, don't blame the gun on something that wasn't its fault.

    Stuff happens, a bad cartridge got past, but luckily there was no damage to yourself or the firearm.

    I haven't shot much factory ammo in the past few years due to reloading my own, but I will say that when reloading and handling cases and cartridges multiple times during the process, you get a feel for something that isn't right, sometimes before you see it visually.

    Check your ammo when loading the mags, (something all of us should do but may not) and as long as your or the other folks who helped you didn't see any damage to the G19, shoot away and be safe.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    What an instance of 'duh' for me.
    Of course, the recoil spring doesn't have the energy to fold brass like that.
    It was stupid of me not to assume that the round came from the factory the same way it came out of the G19.
    Still wondering how to clear that kind of jam.
    (I didn't see what the smith did...and forgot to ask. I was trying to help my son who was shooting for the first time that night.)
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    If you couldn't rack the round out of the chamber, the only way to clear it I could think of would be to use a cleaning rod or dowel to push it out from the muzzle. Certainly not something you would do in the middle of a fight.

    Stuff happens, which is why I carry two guns.

    Certainly, quickly check each round as you load your mags. No sense possibly damaging your gun due to being in a hurry.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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    We forgive you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brass63 View Post
    What an instance of 'duh' for me.
    Of course, the recoil spring doesn't have the energy to fold brass like that.
    It was stupid of me not to assume that the round came from the factory the same way it came out of the G19.
    Still wondering how to clear that kind of jam.
    (I didn't see what the smith did...and forgot to ask. I was trying to help my son who was shooting for the first time that night.)

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    I've had this happen 3 times in the past 4 months and it is the ammo. Once on my 19 and the other two on students guns with fresh factory ammo. Sent the offending rounds back to in my case Remington and they verified that the machines that do the bullet seating and case sizing get cranky and will sometimes deform the case causing a very small wrinkle in the brass. Sure enough I found two new rounds in a box that had this deformity.

    As a side note, you can clear it but it's a brute force thing. Drop the mag and make SURE to keep it pointed in a safe direction and work the slide hard. It takes a bit but it will finally break free and allow the slide to function. It's a hard lock up but can be cleared usually with persistence.

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    VIP Member Array Brass63's Avatar
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    Great link tkruf!
    (I don't know how I missed that thread last year.)
    My offending cartridge was much worse than yours.
    There was also some great advice in that thread about how to best clear the jam.
    And thanks Bullseye for your info too.
    If it ever happens again...
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    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass63 View Post
    Great link tkruf!
    (I don't know how I missed that thread last year.)
    My offending cartridge was much worse than yours.
    There was also some great advice in that thread about how to best clear the jam.
    And thanks Bullseye for your info too.
    If it ever happens again...
    I now always check my ammo for defects before shooting it. Especially Walmart White Box Ammo. If I buy the 100 round box from Wally World, first thing I do when I get it home is sit down with a Glock barrel and hand check each round to make sure they all go in easy, also visual and tactile check for deformity.

    Stay safe!
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    Senior Member Array adric22's Avatar
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    I've had my Glock 19 for about 10 years and never once had I had a malfunction, despite hundreds of rounds. I used to enjoy telling people how reliable it was. But then taking my CHL renewal class a few weeks ago it jammed during the test. I cycled the slide twice and cleared it, along with loosing at least 2 rounds of ammo for the test. I would have spent more time examining exactly what happened, but I was in a hurry to clear it. Despite that, I still got a perfect 100% on the test because the instructor was not able to count all of my shots since they were all through the same big hole.

    I also suspect it was the ammo's fault. I had brought a 50-round box with me for the test only to realize when I opened the box that it was only half-full! So I had to run to the front of the range and buy some ammo as quickly as possible. I just grabbed the first box of 9mm I could find, didn't even recognize the brand.

    So I still think the Glock is a super duper reliable gun.

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    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    I agree with inspecting ammo, but it only helps with some defects. I was unlucky enough to have some "premium" ammo sqib on the range, taking the gun out until I could get a dowel down the barrel. In a real fight I'd be dead without a back-up. That's why I carry a back-up regardless of being thought of as paranoid. If you're unlucky enough to get caught in a gunfight I wouldn't be relying on luck to make it out alive.

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    I had this same thing happen with a new Model G17. I was shooting WWB and about half way thru a box the 17 locked up tight. I dropped the mag and tried to rack the slide and it would not move. I'm thinking man if I was in a real gunfight I would be dead now! After about ten minutes of working on it I finally hit the back of the slide hard enough to chamber the round, and fired it downrange. I wished I had tried to eject the round so I could of inspected it. Ran the rest of the box with no problems. I had another box and I dumped them out and visually inspected each round. I have put 200 more rounds thru the G17 with no problems, I feel sure it was a defective round.
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    Member Array tarrigoni's Avatar
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    I had this same thing happen to me a couple weeks ago and was a little concerned my 19 had some issues. Now I feel better.

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